"Predators" Discuss/Grade (Spoilers)
- Thread starter nx1701g
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Actually I have a sneaking suspicion that it was because he actually had missed the alien ship...this is a guy who not half an hour previously wanted to booby trap Topher Grace after all!
I dunno Predator had shane Black in it who's probably as puny as Topher Grace.
It would have made a difference to me.
What's more, the setting didn't feel real to me at all. And I did mind.
That business about the sun not moving, for example, was just foolish, and threw me right out of the movie. Even Roger Ebert picked up on that.
I was nineteen when I saw Predator. Maybe if I was still nineteen, I might have enjoyed this movie as much as that one. But I'm not, and I didn't. Maybe that means I should stop going to movies like this. I don't know.
Emphasis added.
That is all just speculation on your part. I understand why you would use your imagination to fill in the blanks in a movie you enjoyed--that's what Trekkies do. I've done it myself.
But what you're saying here just wasn't up there on the screen. All I saw was a couple of completely undeveloped stock characters--one of whom (Isabelle) was not very well acted. Though to be fair to Alice Braga, the script gave her almost nothing to work with. Her character--a supposed IDF black ops sniper--didn't even have a Hebrew name, presumably in an attempt to gloss over the fact that she was being played by a Brazilian.
So, look: if you enjoyed yourself, then I'm glad. I really am. But I didn't enjoy myself. That's just a fact, and no amount of disagreement and argument from you is going to change that. If your goal here is to try to persuade me that I should have enjoyed myself, or that I should have rated this movie more highly, then you're wasting your time.
As I've said repeatedly, in this forum and others, I don't believe that works of art like movies have any objective value. Their value is completely subjective, and relative to the moviegoer. It's exactly equal to the amount of entertainment that each individual moviegoer experiences.
One man's Citizen Kane is another man's Plan 9 from Outer Space. What's thrilling to you may be boring to me--and vice versa. And since we're really just talking about ourselves instead of the movie, both of us are right.
I can accept that you had a good time. If you can't accept that I didn't, then that's just too bad. And that's really all I have to say on this subject.
Well that's odd because I was sure Isabelle alluded to a lot of that stuff about Royce, and he made several veiled comments about people who were good at their sort of business basically starting to like it. Plus there was the whole business about herleaving her spotter to die (she may of had no choice but obviously had a lot of guilt about it.)
I don't see that the original Predator cast had much more in the way of characterization, they were just a bit nobler. I mean, shane Black's character has a girlfriend with a big pussy...that's seriously the extent of his character. We knew as much about the Russian in this, as much about the con, and more about Isabelle, heck even more about the Yakuza and be barely spoke!
Realistic or no, I thought the comment about the sun was a nicely eerie moment. It only makes sense that highly-trained soldiers like this would notice if the sun wasn't moving through the sky in quite the same way.
The above complaint from Camelopard just threw me right out of the thread.
Why would a tidally locked planet throw you out of a sci-fi movie?
Ebert's comments about the sun not moving or the vista shot make no sense, either. Tidally-locked planets and moons exist, both in relation to each other and stars. Here's a hint: The Moon is tidally locked with Earth.
As for tidal stresses from the complex planetary system, there is no indication what mass those other worlds were or their spatial relation to the game preserve, their actual sizes not distorted by atmospheric effects, distances, orbits, etc. ... unless he picked up on and analyzed enough in the ten second shot to back up that nit, which I doubt based on his penchant for missing such details in flicks he doesn't like. To claim out of hand that the preserve should be a molten wasteland is pretty damn presumptuous.
Furthermore...
At no point in the film did anybody escape from a crashed spaceship. They did escape from an abandoned mobile drilling rig, though.
Pretty basic detail right there addressed directly in dialogue and visuals. Someone's been taking a little too much after Ebert.
Isabella couldn't have South American heritage and be a Jew? The one is mutually exclusive from the other? Clearly Royce should have been IDF since he looks most like a stereotypical Jew, yes?
Best of all, the characters had the amount of characterization necessary to differentiate themselves from one-another and Royce in particular was fully fleshed out for a sci-fi action star. Some examples:
His first reaction to awakening in free-fall is to hope he has a parachute and pull the cord. He doesn't immediately get into a gun battle with the first guys he meets, but instead calms them down and gathers intel. He shoots the doc's branch to get him down instead of debating what to do. When it is clear the other prey know precisely jack and shit, he starts walking and doesn't particularly care if they follow him as long as they don't slow him down.
CALM UNDER PRESSURE. LONER. QUICK-THINKING. IMPUSLIVE. POLITICALLY-MINDED. MERCENARY.
He picks up on the trap baited with the cartel thug and determines there is nothing to be gained angsting over him.
PERCEPTIVE. RUTHLESS. SELFISH.
He deliberately leads everyone into a trap in order to get a better read on what is hunting them, resulting in the death of the African warlord, about whom he cares nothing. His follow-up analysis of the Predators' tactics, equipment and biology is spot on.
CALCULATING. DARING. PRAGMATIC. ANALYTICAL.
Yakuza opts to stay behind and face his enemy man-to-man. Royce wastes no time arguing with the guy and accepts the gift of time the sacrifice will buy him. Following this, serial killer doc is injured. Royce suggests either just abandoning him immediately, or better, boobytrapping him for the inevitable Predator trophy collection. When the chick sniper opts to help the wounded man, Royce abandons them both.
HEARTLESS. CRUEL. RATIONAL. HONEST. FOCUSED.
And on and on. This shit isn't hard. Royce's character is deliberately built up into being The Mercenary in direct opposition to Predator's Dutch, The Soldier, before blending the two character types at the end. All the characters get some little scene or another to give them some flavor. Just as much as any of the HRT guys huffing it with Arnold in the 80s. Isabella and Royce get just as much as Dillon and Dutch. They're not all deep characters, but they're deep enough for the movie they're in.
You want to hate on something, that's cool. Go for it. No one here is personally invested in this movie. But don't just start making shit up because you either weren't paying attention or hope no one else was.
Why would a tidally locked planet throw you out of a sci-fi movie?
Ebert's comments about the sun not moving or the vista shot make no sense, either. Tidally-locked planets and moons exist, both in relation to each other and stars. Here's a hint: The Moon is tidally locked with Earth.
As for tidal stresses from the complex planetary system, there is no indication what mass those other worlds were or their spatial relation to the game preserve, their actual sizes not distorted by atmospheric effects, distances, orbits, etc. ... unless he picked up on and analyzed enough in the ten second shot to back up that nit, which I doubt based on his penchant for missing such details in flicks he doesn't like. To claim out of hand that the preserve should be a molten wasteland is pretty damn presumptuous.
Furthermore...
At no point in the film did anybody escape from a crashed spaceship. They did escape from an abandoned mobile drilling rig, though.
Pretty basic detail right there addressed directly in dialogue and visuals. Someone's been taking a little too much after Ebert.
Isabella couldn't have South American heritage and be a Jew? The one is mutually exclusive from the other? Clearly Royce should have been IDF since he looks most like a stereotypical Jew, yes?
Best of all, the characters had the amount of characterization necessary to differentiate themselves from one-another and Royce in particular was fully fleshed out for a sci-fi action star. Some examples:
His first reaction to awakening in free-fall is to hope he has a parachute and pull the cord. He doesn't immediately get into a gun battle with the first guys he meets, but instead calms them down and gathers intel. He shoots the doc's branch to get him down instead of debating what to do. When it is clear the other prey know precisely jack and shit, he starts walking and doesn't particularly care if they follow him as long as they don't slow him down.
CALM UNDER PRESSURE. LONER. QUICK-THINKING. IMPUSLIVE. POLITICALLY-MINDED. MERCENARY.
He picks up on the trap baited with the cartel thug and determines there is nothing to be gained angsting over him.
PERCEPTIVE. RUTHLESS. SELFISH.
He deliberately leads everyone into a trap in order to get a better read on what is hunting them, resulting in the death of the African warlord, about whom he cares nothing. His follow-up analysis of the Predators' tactics, equipment and biology is spot on.
CALCULATING. DARING. PRAGMATIC. ANALYTICAL.
Yakuza opts to stay behind and face his enemy man-to-man. Royce wastes no time arguing with the guy and accepts the gift of time the sacrifice will buy him. Following this, serial killer doc is injured. Royce suggests either just abandoning him immediately, or better, boobytrapping him for the inevitable Predator trophy collection. When the chick sniper opts to help the wounded man, Royce abandons them both.
HEARTLESS. CRUEL. RATIONAL. HONEST. FOCUSED.
And on and on. This shit isn't hard. Royce's character is deliberately built up into being The Mercenary in direct opposition to Predator's Dutch, The Soldier, before blending the two character types at the end. All the characters get some little scene or another to give them some flavor. Just as much as any of the HRT guys huffing it with Arnold in the 80s. Isabella and Royce get just as much as Dillon and Dutch. They're not all deep characters, but they're deep enough for the movie they're in.
You want to hate on something, that's cool. Go for it. No one here is personally invested in this movie. But don't just start making shit up because you either weren't paying attention or hope no one else was.
you hit the nail on the head. The big difference between the two groups is that the original cast was more larger than life and dynamic, like GI Joe characters. With the new group, you get a much more realistic interpretation... which I can see being a minus. Characterization has nothing to do with it.anyway, i gave it an above average, a 6.5-7 on a 1-10 scale. I enjoyed 1 & 2 more. they were simply more fun, and when I watch a flick nowadays that's all I care about. That being said, I did like the flick.
Outside the opening parachute sequence, I found the first 30 minutes or so boring as all hell. This is where more engaging characters would have helped. You also get a big lull in the middle of the flick, and again, more interesting characters would have helped. Brody did a good job, the prisoner was fun, the rest did a good job (I was hoping for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more from Danny Trejo's character.. what a half assed death)..... they just weren't engaging enough.
How I missed Arnie in Lawrence Fishburn's role. Arnie probably would have been sane and gotten a better death I'm sure. We need a CGI job here for the dvd release. get rid of Fishburn, insert Arnie.Something I really liked was the nod the originals score. I loved Silvestri's tunes, and was glad to see this one follow in that path. I can't remember the actual theme being played though. wtf? there were actually a shitload of nods to the original other than the music. good to see.
I dug the sword fight scene. this seemed to be the only instance of Predator nobility in the entire flick, which leads to the ending. Some Preds should have showed up to take the victors back home. These Preds seemed like a bunch of douchebags. No honor.
while i have a bunch of complaints, it's because I think the first two, the original especially, are classics. i did like the newest installment, but i hope they fix just a couple things for the inevitable part 4.
Thing is, the planet wasn't tidally locked as it had a day/night cycle. Now, you could infer that it was "summer" and simple had a long "day" but there's not much in the movie that supports this idea as the passage of time seems to fairly "earth-centric."
I think the issue was with how a tidally locked planet had an environment suitable for human life.
The planet was not tidaly locked. It had a diurnal cycle.
It just had a long "day" so long that for a while the sun didn't appear to move in the sky, it may have simply been moving slowly. But since night fell on the planet and day came back, apparently within a relatively short amount of time, it does have a day/night cycle (i.e. not tidaly locked) if a really long/bizzare one with a long "day" and a short "night" and a long "mid-day" that make it appear as-if the sun wasn't moving (much) in the sky. When Brody said "the sun isn't moving" he may have really meant "the sun isn't where it should be by now, it doesn't appear to be moving" but obvious "the sun isn't moving" wasn't the case.
It just had a long "day" so long that for a while the sun didn't appear to move in the sky, it may have simply been moving slowly. But since night fell on the planet and day came back, apparently within a relatively short amount of time, it does have a day/night cycle (i.e. not tidaly locked) if a really long/bizzare one with a long "day" and a short "night" and a long "mid-day" that make it appear as-if the sun wasn't moving (much) in the sky. When Brody said "the sun isn't moving" he may have really meant "the sun isn't where it should be by now, it doesn't appear to be moving" but obvious "the sun isn't moving" wasn't the case.
Speculation yes, but logical. If I tell you a rode a school bus to work every day and that was the only detail what color would it be? I didn't tell you but logically its yellow. Similar type of logical conclusions.
I was just making conversation, such as boards are for, not trying to argue for sure. Just pointing out how not having the details you insist should be there are not a total barrier. Especially when one considers the commentary by others already on the "characterizations" by the first Pred cast.
I enjoyed this movie a hell of a lot more than I thought I would. Not a particularly challenging artistic or intellectual achievement, but a fun action/scifi flick that was a worthy sequel to the original.
Fans of the series, Predator proper or AvP, can rest knowing that a sequel in some form is likely to come.
Having finished its second weekend its now matched the production cost of $40m. The USdom tally=$40.3 and the international numbers are now in for a WW total=$77.9m
The Alien and Predator films are the type that due to budget and marketing being kept so low they don't have to make 2 or 3x budget to keep getting new entries!!
Now do we want a Predator 4 or an AvP3? We're already getting two Alien prequels, aka Alien 5&6.
Having finished its second weekend its now matched the production cost of $40m. The USdom tally=$40.3 and the international numbers are now in for a WW total=$77.9m
The Alien and Predator films are the type that due to budget and marketing being kept so low they don't have to make 2 or 3x budget to keep getting new entries!!
Now do we want a Predator 4 or an AvP3? We're already getting two Alien prequels, aka Alien 5&6.
Huh? It nosedived 72% in weekend two. Fairly close to the all time record for worst drop.
Your missing the point.
Also, a little movie called Inception took the box office by storm.
20the Century Fox only cares about its bottom line not "coming close to all time worst drop" and its bottom line is promising. Before DVD sales.
While its not an official announcement from FOX the producer talks Predators sequel cause, "its doing good business" and the studio has asked him where he might go from here.
So, what is good business to date on a $40m budgeted movie with little marketing? Well to date in its third week the USdom total is $46.5m and the WW is $94.7m.
While the studio has asked about a direct Predators sequel, which I'd be curious, I also want a third AvP. Maybe that will resurface after the Alien Prequel. That article does say "other ones" maybe AvP can be in that mix.
So, what is good business to date on a $40m budgeted movie with little marketing? Well to date in its third week the USdom total is $46.5m and the WW is $94.7m.
While the studio has asked about a direct Predators sequel, which I'd be curious, I also want a third AvP. Maybe that will resurface after the Alien Prequel. That article does say "other ones" maybe AvP can be in that mix.
Hmmm, my vote straddles between 'Above Average' and 'Average' - But I had to go with 'Average'.
As I suspected from seeing the trailers - this movie really suffers from following 'Avatar'. The planet just doesn't look alien enough. It looks like any jungle on Earth. (Of course, they have limited budget, I get that)
Plus when they try to show the alien sky-scape, they just go waaay overboard. A completely implausible moon/planet system. Then you have the whole sun not moving, yet they have day/night cycle.
On a positive note, I did like most of the characters. Except a few that just didn't seem tough enough to have been picked up by the Predators. (like the girl)
I also kept expecting the Topher Grace character to be a Predator collaborator - given his knowledge of the plant poisons. (Or does that plant happen to grow on two planets)
But it was still an enjoyable enough film. Very much a throwback to the 80-ish action films.
As I suspected from seeing the trailers - this movie really suffers from following 'Avatar'. The planet just doesn't look alien enough. It looks like any jungle on Earth. (Of course, they have limited budget, I get that)
Plus when they try to show the alien sky-scape, they just go waaay overboard. A completely implausible moon/planet system. Then you have the whole sun not moving, yet they have day/night cycle.
On a positive note, I did like most of the characters. Except a few that just didn't seem tough enough to have been picked up by the Predators. (like the girl)
I also kept expecting the Topher Grace character to be a Predator collaborator - given his knowledge of the plant poisons. (Or does that plant happen to grow on two planets)
But it was still an enjoyable enough film. Very much a throwback to the 80-ish action films.
Huh.. What?.. Does not compute. You actually want a third AvP film??????
You are kidding, right? Are you a masochist?