Spoilers Possible Enterprise focused Short Trek?

[Tenacity]

The Federation and Starfleet isn't sexist

More likely, some of the millions of people in Starfleet are and some people aren't.

Some of the thousands of cultures in the Federation will be and some won't. And it won't be all or nothing, a sliding scale between the two extremes.

Sexism, racism, specism, shapism (according to Data this one is still there), others. Just because a world or group of worlds joins the Federation doesn't mean everything about them get re-ordered. What they are becomes part of the Federation.

 

[Awesome Possum]

More likely, some of the millions of people in Starfleet are and some people aren't.

Some of the thousands of cultures in the Federation will be and some won't.

And it won't be all or nothing, a sliding scale between the two extremes.

It’s an idealized future, we don’t have to inject the idea that some people will always be garbage.

The society in Firefly is a more realistic vision of a human society in space. But Trek is a dream we’re supposed to strive for. A future where sexism still exists isn’t worth it and we should do everything we can to prevent it.

 

[Tenacity]

It’s an idealized future

I disagree, and don't feel this was ever what was shown.

The whole "it's a utopia" is a creation of a segment of the fans as to what they think it is or think it should be.

How can a idealized future have as much turmoil and warfare as we regularly see in Trek? A existence where entire planets are wiped clean of life.

Don't get me wrong, the civilization shown is a comfortable and technologically advanced one. Right from the start in TOS it's obvious that racial bigotry among Humans is gone or substantially reduced.

Sexism is a different story, during TOS it unquestionably is still in place. During TNG it's less but males are still disproportional (but not exclusively) in positions of authority.

Specism (sp?) is clearly on display.

Body prejudice remains.

I personally don't engage in the "well, I'm just going to pretend that everything is different than what was shown."

What do I think it is? The Federation (now this is just my view of it) is doubtful to have a single monolithic culture of unicorns and rainbows, It's composed of hundreds of worlds and many thousands of cultures, and they're all going to bring a variety of viewpoints and beliefs to the table. Some of those people Awesome Possum are going to think just how you want them to think.

But reasonably not all or even most.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I disagree, and don't feel this was ever what was shown.

The whole "it's a utopia" is a creation of a segment of the fans as to what they think it is or think it should be.

How can a idealized future have as much turmoil and warfare as we regularly see in Trek? A existence where entire planets are wiped clean of life.

Don't get me wrong, the civilization shown is a comfortable and technologically advanced one. Right from the start in TOS it's obvious that racial bigotry among Humans is gone or substantially reduced.

Sexism is a different story, during TOS it unquestionably is still in place. During TNG it's less but males are still disproportional (but not exclusively) in positions of authority.

Specism (sp?) is clearly on display.

Body prejudice remains.

I personally don't engage in the "well, I'm just going to pretend that everything is different than what was shown."

What do I think it is? The Federation (now this is just my view of it) is doubtful to have a single monolithic culture of unicorns and rainbows, It's composed of hundreds of worlds and many thousands of cultures, and they're all going to bring a variety of viewpoints and beliefs to the table. Some of those people Awesome Possum are going to think just how you want them to think.

But reasonably not all or even most.

TOS and TNG were products of their time. It’s inability to imagine a world without racism and sexism should be treated as failures that current and future productions shouldn’t be forced to replicate. Just like Discovery isn’t using a model because limitations of the time and that we can do better now.

I’m pretty sure the one who started the whole utopia thing was Gene Roddenberry, they slap his name on the show. I’m sure you’ve seen it at least once. He got a bit obsessive about it towards the end of his life.

And the Federation isn’t real, it can be whatever the producers want it to be. I know that some fans really have problems understanding that, but that’s how fiction works. And I really don’t care how fictional people in a fictional universe who aren’t on the show, will never be on the show and only seem to exist in Tenacity’s imagination think. I do find it funny that you seem want to imply I’m arrogant for disagreeing with you. You may want to take that down about 20%, people are allowed to have opinions about fictional universes. Even ones different than yours. You’re also seem to want to make this personal and start a stupid fight. So you might want to drop it now because I have no interest in being dragged into it and you should to stick to going after the post and not the poster.

 

[jaime]

I want backstory. And, without trying, sexism exists in the 22nd, 23rd, and 24th centuries.

Janice Rand is a female Yeoman.
"What's the matter, Jim, don't trust yourself?" She is later assaulted, as is another in "Shore Leave."

"The women!"

Troi has a mother annoying Picard with emotion. In the same type of situation as Rand, Beverly Crusher practically does a lap dance on Picard, begging him to satisfy her "needs" and Tasha Yar does the same. But, at least Tasha is talking about emotional connection, not physical needs. The only relationship to power (Picard, Riker) is to sleep with it. Troi has to be lectures about making sacrifices, by Riker, when taking an exam on Command. Crusher kisses, marries, and divorces Picard is the celebrated Series Finale.

"Can you feel me, Imzadi?"

Troi is a counselor, Beverly a doctor. Caring fields. Tasha is killed of like 18 episodes into its run to be replaced by Worf, the most Macho of the TNG characters. Fights. BDSM. Hookup that leads to a son. Violence.

Behind the scenes, Terry Farrell's makeup was changed because it "ruined her looks." Pulaski was on the show because Gates McFadden left the show over sexist concerns. The catsuit Jeri Ryan wore, caused her to pass out 8 times in three weeks because it restricted her breathing in 12-15 hour days. Jolene Blalock was put in a catsuit, rubbed down with gel, in the series premiere of Enterprise. 2002. In 2009 and 2012, two actresses had to give mission briefings in their underwear, on-screen.

So, sexism exists, already. Since it began with number one, I want her to tackle it, head-on, in Star Trek. Just writing better characters doesn't admit that Star Trek, fanboys cultures, and those position of power in 2019, are guilty of being less than egalitarian.

She is capable. But, I want the characters around her, to not see it because of her being a woman. In backstory.

Does that make sense?

That’s all behind the scenes sexism, not sexism in the federation though. (And even that’s debatable, I don’t think Jolene was the only person rubbed down with gel, and the dudes end up with plenty of exposed flesh throughout the series...Kirk didn’t rip his shirt just to show what a rough and tumble guy he was...and I think naked lead rear ends are almost evenly tied...possibly. I need to review ménage a troi if I can be bothered.)
It’s all about context...you need, in Trek, to be able to say ‘that is happening because she’s a woman, and it would never happen or hasn’t happened to a male’ of which there is very very little, and once you frame itin narrative context, I would suspected actual figure is probably ‘none at all’.

 

[Tenacity]

The catsuit Jeri Ryan wore, caused her to pass out 8 times in three weeks because it restricted her breathing in 12-15 hour days.

The catsuits never cause Ryan to pass out, that was the Borg costume. A combination of it's tight collar piece and Ryan drinking too little water owing to it was a major chore to disassemble the suit to the point she could pee.

I do find it funny that you seem want to imply I’m arrogant for disagreeing with you.

No appraisal of arrogance intended, I simply don't agree with your interpretation of what the show is about.

You’re also seem to want to make this personal and start a stupid fight

Not at all, I was responding to a previous poster with a countering viewpoint of my own. This is a discussion site after all.

So you might want to drop it now

I never picked it up.

TOS and TNG were products of their time. It’s inability to imagine a world without racism and sexism ...

I believe right from TOS forward the show did a good job of showing a world without racism, at least among Humans.

And the Federation isn’t real, it can be whatever the producers want it to be.

Yes, and the producers choose to show a world that still possesses it share of problems. It's (on display) a world where some of the people are power hungry, bumbling fools, arrogant, manipulative, focused on agendas, etc..

And at the same time showed a world that had eliminated some problems, and were getting on top of others. A world where some of the people are caring and compassionate.

It might be hard to get a accurate reckoning of the fictional Federation (and yes it's fictional), it was never the focus of the show. But I think enough was shown to see that the Federation is cosmopolitan and diverse. The various aliens species in the Federation don't seem to possess a single world view.

Or maybe I'm see something that just isn't there.

 

[Awesome Possum]

The catsuits never cause Ryan to pass out, that was the Borg costume. A combination of it's tight collar piece and Ryan drinking too little water owing to it was a major chore to disassemble the suit to the point she could pee.No appraisal of arrogance intended, I simply don't agree with your interpretation of what the show is about.
Not at all, I was responding to a previous poster with a countering viewpoint of my own. This is a discussion site after all.I never picked it up.
I believe right from TOS forward the show did a good job of showing a world without racism, at least among Humans.
Yes, and the producers choose to show a world that still possesses it share of problems. It's (on display) a world where some of the people are power hungry, bumbling fools, arrogant, manipulative, focused on agendas, etc..

And at the same time showed a world that had eliminated some problems, and were getting on top of others. A world where some of the people are caring and compassionate.

It might be hard to get a accurate reckoning of the fictional Federation (and yes it's fictional), it was never the focus of the show. But I think enough was shown to see that the Federation is cosmopolitan and diverse. The various aliens species in the Federation don't seem to possess a single world view.

Or maybe I'm see something that just isn't there.

Okay.

 

[jaime]

The catsuits never cause Ryan to pass out, that was the Borg costume. A combination of it's tight collar piece and Ryan drinking too little water owing to it was a major chore to disassemble the suit to the point she could pee.No appraisal of arrogance intended, I simply don't agree with your interpretation of what the show is about.
Not at all, I was responding to a previous poster with a countering viewpoint of my own. This is a discussion site after all.I never picked it up.
I believe right from TOS forward the show did a good job of showing a world without racism, at least among Humans.
Yes, and the producers choose to show a world that still possesses it share of problems. It's (on display) a world where some of the people are power hungry, bumbling fools, arrogant, manipulative, focused on agendas, etc..

And at the same time showed a world that had eliminated some problems, and were getting on top of others. A world where some of the people are caring and compassionate.

It might be hard to get a accurate reckoning of the fictional Federation (and yes it's fictional), it was never the focus of the show. But I think enough was shown to see that the Federation is cosmopolitan and diverse. The various aliens species in the Federation don't seem to possess a single world view.

Or maybe I'm see something that just isn't there.

Vulcan is a member....and having just watched Amok Time has some....unusual traits shall we say.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Behind the scenes, Terry Farrell's makeup was changed because it "ruined her looks."

Not because Terry was allergic to the original makeup?

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm going to be brutally honest. I think if they knew the Trill were going to become more than just an alien-of-the-week, they never would've looked like they did in "The Host".

This is one of the reasons why it was such a mistake to make to go with Bumpy Foreheads so often in the Berman Era. They never knew when it might bite them in the ass in the future.

I think Saru would've been a forehead alien if DSC were a Berman Series. I'm glad he isn't and that, instead, he looks like a live-action version of a TAS alien.

 

[Tenacity]

Not because Terry was allergic to the original makeup?

jennifer lien?