Poll: The Electric car Vs The Hydrogen car.

[flux_29]

Which is better?

 

[John Picard]

Biofuels.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Mass-Transit!

 

[Brolan]

Electric, but only because Hydrogen is not ready for the mass market, and may never be.

 

[Meredith]

Mass-Transit!

Mass Transit is so great because it doesn't use a drop of oil at all!!!!


I would say i like the idea of a hydrogen powered Hybrid electric car.

 

[Ariadne]

Both hydrogen and electricity are energy currencies, not sources, so it really depends on where you get the electricity and hydrogen from.

 

[farmkid]

Both hydrogen and electricity are energy currencies, not sources, so it really depends on where you get the electricity and hydrogen from.

That's true. And, hydrogen cars (the fuel cell variety) are really electric cars. They just store the energy in chemical bonds in hydrogen, rather than ionized molecules in batteries. Looking at it that way, hydrogen is much better because it can store much more energy with less weight and can be replenished much faster.

Hydrogen may be the better alternative for the weight reason above, and because it may be an easier switch. Hydrogen can power cars using fuel cells or internal combustion engines. It may be simpler to first begin building the infrastructure necessary to produce and distribute hydrogen and build cars with regular internal combustion engines that can run on hydrogen. Then, as fuel cell technology matures, switch from internal combustion to fuel cells. Internal combustion engines do not require extensive modification to run on hydrogen, so this pathway allows us to break up the switch over into smaller, more managable steps.

I went to the Sacramento Auto Show over the weekend and spent some time talking to people from the California Fuel Cell Partnership. They have already made great progress in getting hydrogen off the ground and have several fully functional fuel cell vehicles. There are already something like 30 hydrogen fueling stations in CA, and more planned. The thing about hydrogen is that it can be made onsite at the fueling station, or even at a person's home, so a distribution network isn't absolutely necessary. Of course, that would require upgrades to the electricity grid. Maybe this should be combined with the small nuclear power plants mentioned in another thread here on this forum.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Mass-Transit!

Mass Transit is so great because it doesn't use a drop of oil at all!!!!


I would say i like the idea of a hydrogen powered Hybrid electric car.

Yup. It's the only answer. All these "other" ideas are band aids on a severed limb.

 

[John Picard]

Mass-Transit!

Mass Transit is so great because it doesn't use a drop of oil at all!!!!


I would say i like the idea of a hydrogen powered Hybrid electric car.

Yup. It's the only answer. All these "other" ideas are band aids on a severed limb.

Too bad it takes an enormous amount of energy to generate Hydrogen, which in itself is extremely volatile.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Mass-Transit!

Seconded.

Cars are a luxury, not a right. We shouldn't need them. Ideally, all transit could be mass transit.

You think the average New Yorker, for example, thinks they have to own a car? Nope. (Would you want to drive a car in a place like that, anyway?) They have safe, efficient mass transit. What do they need with cars?

 

[CorporalClegg]

Mass Transit is so great because it doesn't use a drop of oil at all!!!!


I would say i like the idea of a hydrogen powered Hybrid electric car.

Yup. It's the only answer. All these "other" ideas are band aids on a severed limb.

Too bad it takes an enormous amount of energy to generate Hydrogen, which in itself is extremely volatile.

I was talking about the mass transit.

Seconded.

Cars are a luxury, not a right. We shouldn't need them. Ideally, all transit could be mass transit.

You think the average New Yorker, for example, thinks they have to own a car? Nope. (Would you want to drive a car in a place like that, anyway?) They have safe, efficient mass transit. What do they need with cars?

Or the majority of those in other countries.

The automobile (It's reliance.) was the biggest mistake Americans made in the last 100 years.

 

[Neopeius]

Both hydrogen and electricity are energy currencies, not sources, so it really depends on where you get the electricity and hydrogen from.

Exactly! So is it more efficient to burn gas in a car or burn oil/coal/natural gas in a powerplant to charge a car/produce hydrogen?

I really want to know the answer to this question.

 

[farmkid]

Both hydrogen and electricity are energy currencies, not sources, so it really depends on where you get the electricity and hydrogen from.

Exactly! So is it more efficient to burn gas in a car or burn oil/coal/natural gas in a powerplant to charge a car/produce hydrogen?

I really want to know the answer to this question.

According to this document that I found a link to from this site, hydrogen is more efficient in terms of energy alone that gas, but the source of energy is very important in overall environmental impact. Here's what they say:

Emissions associated with the production of hydrogen vary according to the source of the hydrogen. If hydrogen is produced using electrolysis and the electricity is derived from renewable resources then the source-to-wheel emissions are zero. In this scenario the entire fuel cycle is also sustainable. Evaporative emissions during the distribution phase are not significant since even if the hydrogen leaks out, it does not create environmental problems. If hydrogen is used in a fuel cell the only emission is water. In a hydrogen combustion engine, only near-zero amounts of NOx are emitted. For the entire source-towheel cycle, hydrogen vehicle emissions of ROG, NOx and CO are clearly less than gasoline or diesel, while the relative comparison for PM depends on how the hydrogen is made.​

...

As with smog-forming emissions, the source-to-wheel GHG emissions of hydrogen vehicles depend on the method of hydrogen production. In this case emissions also depend on what type of vehicle uses the hydrogen, because fuel cell vehicles require less hydrogen than ICE vehicles that burn hydrogen. And both hydrogen fuel cell and ICE vehicles are more efficient than comparable gasoline vehicles. Notable is that production
of hydrogen from renewable-based electricity results in near zero emissions. Reforming of natural gas also results in lower fuel cycle GHG emissions than gasoline. However, production of hydrogen using grid electrolysis results in greater GHG emissions than gasoline. Again this points out the importance of developing the CA H2 Net using the lowest-emitting technologies for producing hydrogen.​

 

[Mr. B]

Until we can get hydrogen from water without obscene amounts of electricity, electric cars make so much more sense.

 

[John Picard]

Until we can get hydrogen from water without obscene amounts of electricity, electric cars make so much more sense.

They have a limited range and are impractical. Everyone believes they are a panacea, but tell me how effective they will be in extremely cold climates. Sorry, but in the end I believe biofuels will win out. Landfills are an huge, untapped source of natural gas.

 

[Mr. B]

I can see how some biofuels could be of benefit, but any process that converts what could be food into fuel is just plain stupid as is happening right now with corn.

Personally I think nuclear power + electric cars are the way to go in the more immediate future. Battery production is still a source of extraordinary vile pollution, however. Maybe in the next few decades, chemical batteries will be replaced with some sort of super capacitors.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Fusion powered cars.

 

[CorporalClegg]

A cold fusion car would be mega-badass.

But, I won't be holding my breath...

Maybe sometime around the third millennium.

 

[Kronos]

Natural Gas powered car.

I say this as here in the middle of nowhere North Carolina I have access to a NG station.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Personally I think nuclear power + electric cars are the way to go in the more immediate future.

Either that or large-scale photovoltaics (currently booming here in southern Germany) enhanced with Krafft Ehricke's "Powersoletta" orbital mirror system, which modern gossamer spacecraft technology would make comparatively inexpensive to launch in sufficient quantities.

TGT