Sorry, but it's bugging me "Walloping" in grief? I think you mean wallowing.
Poll: Bring Janeway back?
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Well Chakotay is a boxer...
So Chakotay is going round giving people a good smack round the head in grief?
Doubt it somehow
Sorry; meant to put that in sarcasm quotes. Indeed, I think that's probably what he meant.
No worries, I didn't want to be a spelling nazi or anything, it just bugged me after I saw it for the 3rd time.
No worries, I didn't want to be a spelling nazi or anything, it just bugged me after I saw it for the 3rd time.
You're absolutely right, it should have been "wallowing", not "walloping".
A slight error in my program apparently, and no, I don't feel offended by any of the comments about it. On the contrary, I'm happy for the correction.
Ok, seriously... don't you think you're going off the deep end just a bit here? "constantly killed off, ruined"... ONE character has died. ONE. Why does this event cause you to take this attitude that Janeway's death absolutely beyond doubt must herald the death or ruination of untold numbers of Voyager characters in the coming books? Where are you GETTING that idea?
And a "bogus crew" with "one or two remaining characters from the series"? How many times must people who have read Full Circle (not to mention the person who WROTE it) point out that all of the Voyager mains are in the book (including Janeway, for like the entire first half) before you stop beating on this non-existent point about a book you refuse to read? EVERYONE IS IN THE BOOK. Deal with that. As for future books? Who knows. Tuvok is on the Titan, granted, but we don't know anything about the ultimate plans for other Voyager characters. And neither do you.
Of course they were aware that some fans would be upset. There's no way they wouldn't realize that. But that's who's angry: SOME fans. Not all fans (or even, I would venture, most fans). Every creative decision of any consequence that the writing/editing team makes - every last one - is going to displease some fans while pleasing others. Period. This is no different. You don't like this one, but that doesn't make it invalid.
Perhaps this wasn't clear, but by "mistake that needs to be corrected", I meant objectively. I was attempting to ask you (or anyone else who wanted to answer) if you truly believe that Janeway's death was objectively a bad decision, because it's not. It's wrong to certain people. But this is subjective, just as asking "How good was book X" is subjective.
As for the bolded part... Seriously? I will grant that many of your "opponents" are not as big Janeway fans as you are (I've mentioned that while I basically liked her, she was never a favorite), but if I am interpresting you correctly, you are theorizing that "many" of the people who have been arguing with you are fans of the TrekLit, but not of televised Trek? I find that hard to fathom, that more than a very small number of people would bother reading Voyager (or other Trek) books and posting about them on a Trek message board without being fans of the show (or of other Trek shows). If a bunch of people jump up and say that's exactly the case for them, then I will stand corrected, but I seriously doubt it.
And who is "they" who supposedly want the stories to be as close to real life as possible? I certainly don't. Pushing for one element of storytelling that we perceive as a good thing does not mean that we blanketly want Trek books to suddenly mimic real life in all possible ways, or that we want to rewrite Trek. Afterall, this is nothing new in Trek. Which brings me to my next point: "Why impose that on Trek?" No one is imposing anything on Trek. Character death is nothing new. Tragic and dark storylines are nothing new. Before Dishonor was no more dark than a bunch of the darker TV episodes or movies have been. This is another thing you've been repeatedly bringing up (without having read the book): that Janeway's death is the beginning of the end, that TrekLit will now proceed to lose all hope and tell stories of darkness and despair and death and blah blah blah. IT'S NOT. N-O-T.
This is one of the first things you've said that makes perfect sense to me.
You're upset with Pocket and the writers for not including a character who was written out of the TV show after just over three out of seven seasons?
Just for the record, the above post sums up my feelings about Janeway's death quite well.
I didn't think I should say anything, because I didn't want to be seen as being overly nitpicky or attacking Lynx for silly reasons, but it is kind of a funny typo. I couldn't help but picture various Voyager crew members walking around, bawling their eyes out as they slugged people at random.No worries, I didn't want to be a spelling nazi or anything, it just bugged me after I saw it for the 3rd time.
You're absolutely right, it should have been "wallowing", not "walloping".
A slight error in my program apparently, and no, I don't feel offended by any of the comments about it. On the contrary, I'm happy for the correction.
I do think we can agree on the fact that "Full Circle" and the current direction of "Voyager" is nothing for me.
As for the characters, even if I happen to like them, I don' think that their development or whatever it is will be interesting for me either since it will be built on the premise of the death of the main character.
As for the new captain (whatever the name is), I do think I'll find it hard to accept that character as the Voyager captain.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Chakotay on the way out from Voyager? That would mean 5 missing main characters (Janeway, Chakotay, Tuvok, Kes, Neelix) for the future books. And what about The Doctor.
And the rest? Remnants of a glorious past.
Former Maquis commander Novak to Kes about the ship Voyager in my fan-fiction story "Strange Dreams"
I know. I would never say otherwise.
Yes, you're wrong. For the record:
The captain's name is Afsareh Eden.
Chakotay has resigned his Starfleet commission, along with Seven, but they have their own reasons to intersect with the future of the storyline; much like many of the main characters in Golden's relaunch, they're not on the ship but they will be an important part of the story going forwards. The cliffhanger for the book rests on exactly what Chakotay is planning to do next, though, so I don't know any more than that.
The story that brings Chakotay and Seven to that place is incredibly complicated and powerful, and my paragraph does it no justice whatsoever. That is their status at the end of the book, but that is not their story. If you'd like to know why this all happened, read the book. But you can't criticize it until you do so, because this is intimately involved with the story told.
The Doctor is a part of the fleet that will be accompanying Voyager into the Delta Quadrant. So is Torik, so is Barclay, and soon so will Torres. Plus, they're going back to the Delta Quadrant specifically to follow up on Voyager's adventures, so there's an eminently reasonable chance they'll run into Neelix and possibly also Kes (I can't actually remember her status as of the end of String Theory).
Chakotay has resigned his Starfleet commission, along with Seven, but they have their own reasons to intersect with the future of the storyline; much like many of the main characters in Golden's relaunch, they're not on the ship but they will be an important part of the story going forwards. The cliffhanger for the book rests on exactly what Chakotay is planning to do next, though, so I don't know any more than that.
The story that brings Chakotay and Seven to that place is incredibly complicated and powerful, and my paragraph does it no justice whatsoever. That is their status at the end of the book, but that is not their story. If you'd like to know why this all happened, read the book. But you can't criticize it until you do so, because this is intimately involved with the story told.
The Doctor is a part of the fleet that will be accompanying Voyager into the Delta Quadrant. So is Torik, so is Barclay, and soon so will Torres. Plus, they're going back to the Delta Quadrant specifically to follow up on Voyager's adventures, so there's an eminently reasonable chance they'll run into Neelix and possibly also Kes (I can't actually remember her status as of the end of String Theory).
Saito S wrote:
Because if they can kill off the main character of Voyager, then I guess it will be very easy to waste more of them if some "effect" is needed.
And the information that "all he main characters are in the book" is wrong. Kes and Neelix are missing.
I don't doubt that the people I'm arguing with are or at least have been fans of the different TV series as well, otherwise they wouldn't have start treading the books from the start. But sometimes I get the impression that they are more fans of the authors and what they might come up with than for example Voyager or different Voyager characters. They won't mind if some author they like kill off the entire Voyager crew to get an effect.
As for people wanting the stories to be as close to "real life" as possible, just read through the threads in which the "Janeway case" are debated. I've seen a lot of such references.
Now that would actually have been funny.
Because if they can kill off the main character of Voyager, then I guess it will be very easy to waste more of them if some "effect" is needed.
And the information that "all he main characters are in the book" is wrong. Kes and Neelix are missing.
I don't doubt that the people I'm arguing with are or at least have been fans of the different TV series as well, otherwise they wouldn't have start treading the books from the start. But sometimes I get the impression that they are more fans of the authors and what they might come up with than for example Voyager or different Voyager characters. They won't mind if some author they like kill off the entire Voyager crew to get an effect.
As for people wanting the stories to be as close to "real life" as possible, just read through the threads in which the "Janeway case" are debated. I've seen a lot of such references.
Are you sure of that?
Yes I am, or more correctly, I used to be. With the current development of Star Trek in general and the Voyager relaunch in particular, I'm actually happy that the character is left out of the ongoing storyline.You're upset with Pocket and the writers for not including a character who was written out of the TV show after just over three out of seven seasons?
I didn't think I should say anything, because I didn't want to be seen as being overly nitpicky or attacking Lynx for silly reasons, but it is kind of a funny typo. I couldn't help but picture various Voyager crew members walking around, bawling their eyes out as they slugged people at random.
Now that would actually have been funny.
As for the spoiler you presented
OK, this might look paranoid but there are things here that gives me a bad feeling. Chakotay and Seven, hm? Is it an attempt to re-create C/7? Besides that, I've already stated my opinion about the bogus crew going to the Delta Quadrant. I sincerely hope that they leave Kes out of all future stories.
"I see the bad moon arising.
I see trouble on the way.
I see earthquakes and lightnin.
I see bad times today."
"Bad Moon Rising"
Creedence Clearwater Revival
Perhaps it's something like all the chocolate ice-cream in the world being taken away and replaced with some carob-soy substitute. No way I'm paying money for that!
But I'd still like my chocolate ice-cream, and would be prepared to plunk down money for it, should any miraculously come available from the We're-Not-Killjanes!-Dairy.
A strange analogy, I know, but it works for me. (I can usually find a way to relate nearly everything to chocolate, if only I try hard enough.)
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It's like all the chocolate ice-cream in the world has been taken away and replaced with some hideous carob-soy substitute. No way I'm paying money for that!
But I'd still like my chocolate ice-cream, and would be prepared to plunk down money for it, should any miraculously come available from the We're-Not-Killjoys/Killjanes!-Dairy.
A strange analogy, I know, but it works for me. (I can usually find a way to relate nearly everything to chocolate, if only I try hard enough.)
You're looking at it like it's a choice between Trek or no Trek. Lynx, I suspect, is looking at it in the light of Trek now or (possibly) Trek later. TipTop may not produce my perfect ice-cream flavour, but there's the possibility that in the future they might. Not a high one, but chances don't get any higher by shutting up.
And this is 100% totally fair.
What's NOT fair is then taking the carob-soy substitute and being annoyed that it isn't brown enough. You're not eating it anyway.
Did I not just say that the story was an extremely complex and emotional one, and that you couldn't understand it without reading how they got there?
You ARE being paranoid. Christ. Either read it or don't, but this shit is stupid.
QFT.
So for me, if it helps to answer your question at all: it's not death-fic that has stopped me reading Trek. It's killing off the only thing that kept me interested in Trek that has stopped me reading Trek.
So, why do I continue to moan? you ask. As I'm sure some of you are...
Because I'd like to read good Trek. I really would - I don't want to hate it. But I have limited reading time, and so I choose to spend that reading time on things that I like, or new authors doing new and interesting things.
I'm afraid I've just grown away from the space opera part of SF.
Thank you - that pretty much sums it up for me too. I've been waiting for years for a good Janeway novel and would really love to read one. It looks like that won't be happening in the near future though. So to drown my sorrow I went to the bookstore and bought myself a nice stack of good books.
Octavia wrote:
Just had to comment on the non-edited post here if you don't mind.
For me, it's a choice not between Trek or no Trek, more between official Trek and fan-fiction Trek. The sad thing is that I like the book format of my reading, especially since I don't have a laptop for now and my favorite reading chair and the computer are in different rooms.
As for the ice-cream metaphor, I've really loved that one, the TipTop ice-cream has been my favorite for many years. But the recent removal of the chocolate from their ice-creams have made them taste awful and I won't eat that sad excuse for ice-cream. And I see no reason for buying their ice-cream just because of nostalgia or for keeping them in business.
So I guess I'm forgiven if I sneak in to Mr.Peasley down the road because he sells something which is almost similar to my old favorite ice-cream. Not that perfect and the chocolate is imported via some some trade route which is a bit questionable but it does taste better than TipTop's stuff.
Not to mention the fact that I might pick up some tips which will make me start to produce my own ice-cream and make it taste exactly like I want it!
It's like all the chocolate ice-cream in the world has been taken away and replaced with some hideous carob-soy substitute. No way I'm paying money for that!
But I'd still like my chocolate ice-cream, and would be prepared to plunk down money for it, should any miraculously come available from the We're-Not-Killjoys/Killjanes!-Dairy.
A strange analogy, I know, but it works for me. (I can usually find a way to relate nearly everything to chocolate, if only I try hard enough.)
You're looking at it like it's a choice between Trek or no Trek. Lynx, I suspect, is looking at it in the light of Trek now or (possibly) Trek later. TipTop may not produce my perfect ice-cream flavour, but there's the possibility that in the future they might. Not a high one, but chances don't get any higher by shutting up.
Just had to comment on the non-edited post here if you don't mind.
For me, it's a choice not between Trek or no Trek, more between official Trek and fan-fiction Trek. The sad thing is that I like the book format of my reading, especially since I don't have a laptop for now and my favorite reading chair and the computer are in different rooms.
As for the ice-cream metaphor, I've really loved that one
, the TipTop ice-cream has been my favorite for many years. But the recent removal of the chocolate from their ice-creams have made them taste awful and I won't eat that sad excuse for ice-cream. And I see no reason for buying their ice-cream just because of nostalgia or for keeping them in business.So I guess I'm forgiven if I sneak in to Mr.Peasley down the road because he sells something which is almost similar to my old favorite ice-cream. Not that perfect and the chocolate is imported via some some trade route which is a bit questionable but it does taste better than TipTop's stuff.
Not to mention the fact that I might pick up some tips which will make me start to produce my own ice-cream and make it taste exactly like I want it!
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