Poll: Bring Janeway back?

[Hartzilla2007]

Also, just cuz some Trek novel author offed Janeway in their story doesn't mean that the other Trek authors have to accept that it happened in their stories. They can keep writing books with Janeway in them all they want!

Actually the books are in a shared universe now so they actually do fave to accept her death.

 

[LightningStorm]

You know... books are only as "canon" as you want them to be. They ain't official. Like in my case, I accept only certain novels/comics/etc to be canon (as in, I like to think this really happened in the ST universe) in my personal view so long as they meet certain criteria.

Couple of clarifications as you have a few words mixed up. Which is understandable as most people who first venture here have these misconceptions.

Every location in your post where you used the word "canon" should be replaced with the word "continuity." Canon is not the same thing as continuity. The books are not canon regardless of who may or may not want them to be. Saying that would be akin to saying "Elephants are as much amphibians as you want them to be." It's factually incorrect. Similarly the word "canon" does not mean "official." Because the published novels are official. They are officially licensed fiction that have to be approved and vetted by CBS/Paramount. To continue my last analogy, "Elephants aren't animals" is factually incorrect. And to use the same analogy for continuity "All elephants live in a zoo" well that's not necessarily true, it's possible but we know from outside sources it isn't true at the moment.

the simple definition of those words are as follows:

Canon: The source material created by the creator/owner of the property. In this case that is all live action tv and movies because those are the only things created by CBS/Paramount. Those aren't even necessarily in continuity with each other.

Continuity: Any material that does not contradict the events of other material. So even Fan Fiction can be continuous with screen Trek and thus apart of continuity.

Official: Any material that is approved and sanctioned by and the owner of the property. So in this case that would include the published novels, magazines, comics, toys and even Christmas ornaments, but not fan-fiction.

In conclusion not all TV episodes are necessarily in the same continuity, but all are canon and official. Not all novels are in the same continuity, none are canon, but all are official. No fan fiction is canon nor official, but some can indeed be in the same continuity.

 

[DimesDan]

^Would it be worthwhile to either add that to the FAQs (if it's not there already as it's been a while since I read them) or even create a sticky as that subject does pop up rather regularly.

 

[K-Star]

Also, just cuz some Trek novel author offed Janeway in their story doesn't mean that the other Trek authors have to accept that it happened in their stories. They can keep writing books with Janeway in them all they want!

Actually the books are in a shared universe now so they actually do fave to accept her death.

Says who?

@LightningStorm: I see. Common mistake, I guess.

So yeah. The simple fact remains that we the fans don't have to accept certain stories or whatnot in our personal ideas of the "continuity" (correct word this time, right?) if we don't want to. That's what makes fiction great... none of it's real and we can view it how we want! (Well... for the most part.)

 

[ClayinCA]

In fact, the more details I see of the upcoming events, the more negative I get.

I was going to say something snarky here, but I've gone down that road with Lynx before and it hasn't helped anybody, including me. So I'll just say: Lynx, I'm really sorry to hear that.

Every location in your post where you used the word "canon" should be replaced with the word "continuity." Canon is not the same thing as continuity. The books are not canon regardless of who may or may not want them to be. Saying that would be akin to saying "Elephants are as much amphibians as you want them to be." It's factually incorrect. Similarly the word "canon" does not mean "official." Because the published novels are official. They are officially licensed fiction that have to be approved and vetted by CBS/Paramount. To continue my last analogy, "Elephants aren't animals" is factually incorrect. And to use the same analogy for continuity "All elephants live in a zoo" well that's not necessarily true, it's possible but we know from outside sources it isn't true at the moment.

the simple definition of those words are as follows:

Canon: The source material created by the creator/owner of the property. In this case that is all live action tv and movies because those are the only things created by CBS/Paramount. Those aren't even necessarily in continuity with each other.

Continuity: Any material that does not contradict the events of other material. So even Fan Fiction can be continuous with screen Trek and thus apart of continuity.

Official: Any material that is approved and sanctioned by and the owner of the property. So in this case that would include the published novels, magazines, comics, toys and even Christmas ornaments, but not fan-fiction.

In conclusion not all TV episodes are necessarily in the same continuity, but all are canon and official. Not all novels are in the same continuity, none are canon, but all are official. No fan fiction is canon nor official, but some can indeed be in the same continuity.

LightningStorm, you are my new best friend.

 

[Lynx]

Also, just cuz some Trek novel author offed Janeway in their story doesn't mean that the other Trek authors have to accept that it happened in their stories. They can keep writing books with Janeway in them all they want!

Actually the books are in a shared universe now so they actually do fave to accept her death.

Which is a reason that I won't buy books from the other series either.

To be honest, I would be very happy if I did find another 24th century series to read now when reading the Voyager relaunch books is a thing of the past for me.

But I know that if there were any references to Janeway's death or confirmation of the events in "Fury" in any of them, I would simply put it down, access the Ebay site on the net and sell it for a symbolic sum.

 

[Defcon]

To be honest, I would be very happy if I did find another 24th century series to read now when reading the Voyager relaunch books is a thing of the past for me.

Read the DS9 Relaunch. It's 3-4 years behind the other series, so Janeway is still alive and Kes hasn't even been mentioned there IIRC so no chance to be reminded of Fury.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Actually the books are in a shared universe now so they actually do fave to accept her death.

But they don't have to. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a novel coming along that treats Janeway as alive and well. It's more likely that most new VOY novels will continue the TNG and VOY Relaunch continuities, but they don't have to.

The "Crucible" trilogy took a few elements from TOS novels and ignored lots of others. It took its lead from canonical, aired TOS and also has many TAS references. The books written by William Shatner treat Kirk as having been resurrected (twice) after "Generations", and these are also not part of the "shared universe". Ogawa's only child is a different gender in the "Genesis Wave" books and the "Titan" books. Admittedly, that started out as an editorial ommission, but it remains, nonetheless.

 

[Dayton Ward]

^ The Crucible and Shatner books took their cue from deliberate editorial decision, though. I couldn't just pitch a novel that ignores the 24th century timeline --- particularly any of the major happenings within it -- and expect it to fly, at least not until I made my case to the editor about why I'm flouting the direction which has been established for the line(s).

 

[Lynx]

To be honest, I would be very happy if I did find another 24th century series to read now when reading the Voyager relaunch books is a thing of the past for me.

Read the DS9 Relaunch. It's 3-4 years behind the other series, so Janeway is still alive and Kes hasn't even been mentioned there IIRC so no chance to be reminded of Fury.

I will consider your suggestion. At least I get three years book production before the warning signs might show up.

 

[Therin of Andor]

at least not until I made my case to the editor about why I'm flouting the direction which has been established for the line(s).

Exactly. If a known bestselling ST author puts forward a great idea for "Mosaic II" is Margaret Clark really going to show them the door, or would she at least give them a hearing?

And, actually, anyone new, submitting a "Voyager" novel proposal and sample chapter, according to the rules of the online writers' guidelines, would not be permitted to refer to the relaunches.

 

[Dayton Ward]

Exactly. If a known bestselling ST author puts forward a great idea for "Mosaic II" is Margaret Clark really going to show them the door, or would she at least give them a hearing?

[Talifan]

She'll gut you where you stand, having already laid down a sheet of plastic to ensure none of your blood or entrails soils the carpet in her office.

[/Talifan]

And, actually, anyone new, submitting a "Voyager" novel proposal and sample chapter, according to the rules of the online writers' guidelines, would not be permitted to refer to the relaunches.

That doesn't mean they'd get to ignore the ongoing continuity. Chances are that whatever was submitted by such a writer wouldn't even end up being the project that gets commissioned. If the writing sample and outline impressed an editor enough to give the writer a shot, the story might get reworked as a standalone set during the series, or else to conform with the ongoing direction. That is, unless a compelling case was made to strike out on a different path, ala Crucible.

(Understand that I'm just speculating here, except for...you know...the gutting part.)

 

[ClayinCA]

Actually, I heard that Margaret got special, ultra-modern, stain-resistant carpeting so that she'd no longer have to bother with the plastic sheeting...

 

[Lynx]

As for writers guidelines:

2.) No death of an established crewmember or character, or any other permanent change in the Star Trek characters, settings, or universe, such as introducing offspring or close relations of the characters other than those already established.

 

[Jaron]

I believe those guidelines are meant for new writers. You need to show that you can play by the rules before you're allowed to break them.

 

[Dayton Ward]

As for writers guidelines:

2.) No death of an established crewmember or character, or any other permanent change in the Star Trek characters, settings, or universe, such as introducing offspring or close relations of the characters other than those already established.

And has already been stated numerous times when this is brought up as a means of decrying "The Janeway Decision," the guidelines on the site are directed at NEW writers looking to break in. They're a job interview, a set of standard criteria designed to see if a new writer can follow simple editiorial direction.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

As for writers guidelines:

2.) No death of an established crewmember or character, or any other permanent change in the Star Trek characters, settings, or universe, such as introducing offspring or close relations of the characters other than those already established.

Yes, because you don't want authors doing those things independently of editorial policy.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

As for writers guidelines:

2.) No death of an established crewmember or character, or any other permanent change in the Star Trek characters, settings, or universe, such as introducing offspring or close relations of the characters other than those already established.

And has already been stated numerous times when this is brought up as a means of decrying "The Janeway Decision," the guidelines on the site are directed at NEW writers looking to break in. They're a job interview, a set of standard criteria designed to see if a new writer can follow simple editiorial direction.

Sadly its starting to look like some people just don't get that even after it has been mentioned MANY times.

 

[Strider]

Which is a reason that I won't buy books from the other series either.

To be honest, I would be very happy if I did find another 24th century series to read now when reading the Voyager relaunch books is a thing of the past for me.

But I know that if there were any references to Janeway's death or confirmation of the events in "Fury" in any of them, I would simply put it down, access the Ebay site on the net and sell it for a symbolic sum.

Lynx, how can you possibly drag this on for forty agonizing pages? Let's sum it up: You wish that the Star Trek books had never killed Janeway. You wish Star Trek: Voyager had never made "Fury". If you can't bear to read or watch anything that reminds you of these incidents, limit your entertainment exposure accordingly. You've ground this particular axe right down to the handle, to be honest. Maybe it's time for a real hobby.

 

[ClayinCA]

Axe-grinding is a hobby, for some...