Political Correctness

[AFEK ESLCAFE W]

No one here in South Korea has ever even remotely heard of "Political Correctness," because they obviously have not had their very own "Martin Luther King, Jr.-type figure" yet throughout all of their history to show them "The Light."

Below is the "culture shock" illustration of how I have felt about this societal situation for the past 3 years and going:

-----> -----> ----->

 

[horatio83]

I have no problem with the idea of using social or peer pressure to stigmatize speech or behavior that would be considered politically incorrect, like the use of racially derogatory terms. However I would strongly oppose using the force of law to do the same thing as that would be in violation of the first amendment.

I am for the content of political correctness but have problems with the form.

I don't wanna live in a social space where you can utter racist, sexist or homophobic slurs without any punishment. But what kind of punishment? Legal punishment is problematic due to free speech and public protest is what we employ currently and usually label political correctness. I think the next step is to make these explicit, non-legal rules of conversation implicit rules. You utter a racist slur and you are just out of the discussion, you are not taken seriously anymore. Nobody says anything, you are just looked at as if you are the idiot you are. Such implicit rules, taboos or however you want to call them can be more powerful than explicit ones.

The other problem I have is that political correctness in and of itself is not connected to actual emancipatory struggles. It is easy to be a liberal who protests when somebody says the N word, it is hard to undo the systemic discrimination against black people. Or to say it with the words of Chris Hedges: The liberal class, stripped of power, could only retreat into its atrophied institutions, where it busied itself with the boutique activism of political correctness and embraced positions it had previously condemned.

 

[cultcross]

There is nothing with political correctness if one wants to be inclusive and respectful towards others. However, as noted above, some people can take it too seriously over minor, and ultimately nonsensical things such as a customer losing their shit when a cashier wished them "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays". First-World problems.

Which is different how from the people who lose their shit when a cashier wishes them "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"? First world problems.

Words, phrases, and their use or avoidance have whipped up tempers pretty much since we had coherent language. Anyone who has ever worried over whether to use 'tu' or 'vous' knows that is true. We are actually in an era when we have much greater freedom to speak our minds and form our language how we wish than ever before, and in the English speaking world have enormous freedoms from inflections of speech based on class and social niceties. 'Political Correctness' is simply a stock media phrase of the times - it has lost essentially all meaning, imho, because the attitudes attributed to it are equally demonstrated by its 'opponents'. If we must say 'Merry Christmas' so as not to offend the WASPs, I don't see the distinction from saying 'Happy Holidays' so as not to offend Muslims/Atheists/Pastafarians.

 

[SPOCKED]

 

[Amaris]

Not really. That's self preservation. In a political state like North Korea, you do exactly what you're told. It really has nothing to do with being politically correct at all. Plus, there's an 's' missing in 'correctness'.

 

[SPOCKED]

Plus, there's an 's' missing in 'correctness'.

I won't pretend to care about this typo so your oppressive attempt to correct me will go unanswered!!

 

[Kemaiku]

 

[Theodore Jay Miller]

I personally have seen a lot more annoying complaints about political correctness than annoying examples of it.

 

[Amaris]

Plus, there's an 's' missing in 'correctness'.

I won't pretend to care about this typo so your oppressive attempt to correct me will go unanswered!!

When I take over the world, I'm issuing dictionaries to all of my special police.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I personally have seen a lot more annoying complaints about political correctness than annoying examples of it.

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Kemaiku]

Plus, there's an 's' missing in 'correctness'.

I won't pretend to care about this typo so your oppressive attempt to correct me will go unanswered!!

When I take over the world, I'm issuing dictionaries to all of my special police.

You didn't say they'd be reading when I signed up.

 

[MacLeod]

The best way to change peoples attitudes is to educate them, forcing something upon people via someform of PCness (or other method) only alinates people.

With regards to the Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays thing, no matter which you use you are likely to rub some people the wrong way. For the former non-Christains and for the later christains (what ever their particular denomination) who might feel their right to celebrate the birth of one of their key religious figures.

If some wishes you a Merry Christmas they are not trying to force their view point on you. However if people in a position of power be it a company or a state decides that it isn't correct for their employee's/citizens to say Merry Christmas then th they are trying to force their viewpoint on them.

Basically people of Christian faith should be allowed to say Merry Christmas if they wish, whilst people of other faiths or no faiths should be allowed to say Happy holidays if they wish. Really if you are going to take offense because someone wished you a Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays then take a step back and say "thanks, same to you" or "Thank you, but I don't celebrate Christmas" etc.

 

[Geckothan]

Political correctness causes more conflict than it prevents.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Agreed.

And there is a big difference between saying things *deliberately* trying to offend people (which I agree should never be done) and being blunt and to the point simply on principle. No one has the right not to be offended. IMHO, false politeness is much more repugnant than blunt and possibly offensive honesty; better to say exactly what you mean, and if anyone's offended by that, then let them, than to leave things out or deliberately dumb down what you say just to make everything sound delicate and bland.

 

[Davros]

I have no problem with the idea of using social or peer pressure to stigmatize speech or behavior that would be considered politically incorrect, like the use of racially derogatory terms. However I would strongly oppose using the force of law to do the same thing as that would be in violation of the first amendment.

I am for the content of political correctness but have problems with the form.

I don't wanna live in a social space where you can utter racist, sexist or homophobic slurs without any punishment. But what kind of punishment? Legal punishment is problematic due to free speech and public protest is what we employ currently and usually label political correctness.

Social stigma and public ridicule by one's peers can be considered as punishment without having to resort to legal punishments.

I think the next step is to make these explicit, non-legal rules of conversation implicit rules. You utter a racist slur and you are just out of the discussion, you are not taken seriously anymore. Nobody says anything, you are just looked at as if you are the idiot you are. Such implicit rules, taboos or however you want to call them can be more powerful than explicit ones.

By letting them spout their nonsense, knowing who not to talk with becomes an easier decision.

The other problem I have is that political correctness in and of itself is not connected to actual emancipatory struggles. It is easy to be a liberal who protests when somebody says the N word, it is hard to undo the systemic discrimination against black people. Or to say it with the words of Chris Hedges: The liberal class, stripped of power, could only retreat into its atrophied institutions, where it busied itself with the boutique activism of political correctness and embraced positions it had previously condemned.

Supporters and detractors of PC take it far too seriously. Without the force of law backing it up, one doesn't need to follow it therefore it doesn't violate anybody's rights.

 

[1001001]

What comes to mind is something that doesn't exist, at least not in the way people use the word. It brings to mind people who, for some reason or another, are resistant to making minor, painless adjustments for the sake of tolerance and inclusiveness. It makes me think of people who are unsophisticated and resistant to change, and really only care about themselves and their own priorities.

I think this is generally accurate, but incomplete. There is another side.

For some it's simply an issue of free speech. I like free speech, if for no other reason than it makes it really clear who the crazy people are...



For some it's the nitpicking and finding fault in statements which are clearly not intended to offend. People can find offense anywhere they wish.

Now I don't go out of my way to offend people, but I also don't wring my hands and worry about every little comment that could possibly offend someone. There are 7 billion people on the planet. Everything is going to offend someone, somewhere...

I choose not to let other people have so much power over me that they can change my emotional state because they use a word I don't like, or a phrase I disapprove of. Of course I don't always succeed, but that's my philosophy: I don't need to change your speech, I need to get comfortable with ideas that are different than mine.

Also, I need to pick and choose my battles.

I understand that there are people who overreact and are oversensitive, I guess I just don't think of it as political correctness. I see it as people who are oversensitive, or maybe similarly self-centered. The only time I see the phrase "political correctness" being thrown around are in cases like I originally stated.

I do agree that words often have more power over us than they should. But in cases of political correctness, I feel like the people who think some of these phrases don't matter are the ones who can afford to think like that.

I'm not saying we shouldn't try to be the bigger person in every situation. I believe that self-improvement is a long and continual journey that we all should be on. But I honestly do feel that many people are so far removed from things such as racial and religious discrimination, or persecution, that it's hard for us to imagine why these words can be so powerful. They are backed by lifetimes of experiences that go far beyond words.

I want to clarify that this post isn't meant to be a disagreement, and I appreciate your opinions on the matter. This is the way a discussion should be. You've given me some things to think about and I hope I have returned the favor, even if only in a small way.

Your post did not offend me (see how that works?).



I don't disagree with you on any particular point.

Still, I'd rather those people reveal themselves than hide behind a facade of political correectness.

Many people do not intend to harm with their speech, and I think when other people interpret their motives in the most negative way possible ("you're a racist" vs. "that word might bother some people") some will understandably get defensive.

And also, sometimes in order to solve serious problems, we have to be able to speak honestly about data and populations. I see this sometimes in psychology. There can be difficulty speaking about problems without "stigmatizing" certain populations, even though there is sufficient data to inform outreach and prevention strategies that are far better targeted than just general campaigns (child abuse is a good example).

 

[Amaris]

I won't pretend to care about this typo so your oppressive attempt to correct me will go unanswered!!

When I take over the world, I'm issuing dictionaries to all of my special police.

You didn't say they'd be reading when I signed up.

I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it further.

 

[Kemaiku]

When I take over the world, I'm issuing dictionaries to all of my special police.

You didn't say they'd be reading when I signed up.

I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it further.

*grumbles*

 

[scotpens]

I don't wanna live in a social space where you can utter racist, sexist or homophobic slurs without any punishment. But what kind of punishment? Legal punishment is problematic due to free speech and public protest is what we employ currently and usually label political correctness. I think the next step is to make these explicit, non-legal rules of conversation implicit rules. You utter a racist slur and you are just out of the discussion, you are not taken seriously anymore. Nobody says anything, you are just looked at as if you are the idiot you are. Such implicit rules, taboos or however you want to call them can be more powerful than explicit ones.

But surely context matters. What if you use racial slurs and/or stereotypes as part of a joke? What if it’s a funny joke?

I personally have seen a lot more annoying complaints about political correctness than annoying examples of it.

Funny, for me it’s the opposite.

. . . there is a big difference between saying things *deliberately* trying to offend people (which I agree should never be done) and being blunt and to the point simply on principle. No one has the right not to be offended. IMHO, false politeness is much more repugnant than blunt and possibly offensive honesty; better to say exactly what you mean, and if anyone's offended by that, then let them, than to leave things out or deliberately dumb down what you say just to make everything sound delicate and bland.

QFT.

Supporters and detractors of PC take it far too seriously. Without the force of law backing it up, one doesn't need to follow it therefore it doesn't violate anybody's rights.

The force of law isn’t the only thing that can have a chilling effect on free speech. In the current PC climate, a public figure who says something perceived as offensive to a particular group — whether the offense was intended or not, whether it was an attempt at humor that backfired, or even if the person was just stating an unpleasant truth — has to make a groveling public apology or risk losing his job. And some have been fired from their jobs anyway.

 

[Amaris]

You didn't say they'd be reading when I signed up.

I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it further.

*grumbles*

Perhaps you think you're being treated unfairly?