police murder man in my town protests and demonstrations

[mtblillie]

Everyone wants to look at these situations in black and white, look, it is NEVER THAT SIMPLE. You weren't there, you don't know what it is like to be in that situation, so stop trying to turn this into something its not. Yes, it sucks that an unarmed person was shot by the police. HOW DO YOU THINK THE COPS FELT WHEN THEY ARE SCARED SHITLESS THINKING SOMEONE IS ABOUT TO KILL THEM AND THEN FINDS OUT THE PERSON IS UNARMED. Its a shitty situation, it doesnt mean they went in guns blazing and have no concern over murdering people, if you feel your life is being threatened chances are you would pull the trigger too.

An innocent person being shot and killed is as serious failure of the system as an innocent being executed.

Police choose to go into an occupation that has its hazards. The innocent person killed by police had no choice at all.

If a doctor's negligence causes death he can face charges and that goes for most other occupations too. It seems that if a policeman kills someone while disregarding proper procedure many people's attitude is "tough luck".

I am sure that the majority of policemen could have handled the Zerby case batter than the two policemen did. Their poor treatment of the situation, especially their failure to follow proper procedure, means that they should not be policemen. Their mistakes were made before Zerby ever innocently raised his arms.

Again, speculation. If a court ruling decides they had ample time to identify themselves they never did and instead came out shooting, then that is probebly what happened. I'm not saying it wasn't a bad situation, I'm not saying it couldn't have been handled better. I'm saying these people have seconds to make a decision, under extreme pressure, and their decision gets picked apart for months by people who have NEVER been any situation like that and have NO IDEA what it is like. If an investigation reveals that it was in fact a bad call that could have been prevented without putting anyone else in danger then good, at worst it worst it still leaves "what not to do" lesson for officers in the future.

The thing that bugs me about all this is that if the opposite happens, the community becomes outraged and calls it a police cover up and all this other stuff and they have no idea what they are talking about. No one EVER seems to realise that officers are human beings, they dont go into a situation with the intent on murdering someone, I'm not saying that if they kill someone unjustly it is ok, I'm just saying he doesnt need to get lynched by the community. No matter if he is cleared or not, he will have to live with that death for the rest of his life, all this news and public drama is to make everyone else feel better, make people feel like "justice is served" but it doesn't change a damned thing.

In a week or a month or a year or a decade another death will occur and the whole thing will start again. Why? Becaus of police corruption? Because cops are poorly trained? Because an officer who continually makes mistakes somehow has a long good record for 10 years? No. Its because things spiralled out of control in a bad way and somebody got shot. It is life. If he is guilty prosecute him, but stop acting like cops are incapable of making mistakes until it actually happens, and stop calling cops guilty simply because they are cops until you know the facts.

 

[mtblillie]

Something else needs to be completely understood. Police Procedure, no matter how thought out, no matter how many times it is re-evaluated and changed, cannot account for EVERY single situation. This appears to be one of those situations where everything was done right and still there was a bad outcome, it is the unfortunate nature of life. Did the Mr. Zerby deserve to die? No. Is he responsible for what happened when he didn't know that there were police there? No. This was something that shouldn't have happened but did. That doesn't mean it was completely avoidable. If, for example the procedure is changed, and for example we will say that cops must in every single instance announce their presence and order someone to put their hands up no matter what the situation, then somewhere down the line an officer dies. Then another. And then somewhere further down the line cops feel so threatened by the way that their procedure is that they simply stop following it, and more innocent people die. Obviously this is only one possible outcome, it may turn out to work, the point is there are assumptions being made that something can be done to prevent this from happening again, but the truth is that is not always the case. If an investigation reveals there is, then great, change it for the better. But just because there SHOULD be, doesn't mean there is.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Only speculation, but I'd guess this man pointed his playgun at several people and objects, which precipitated the initial phone calls. If this is the case, he bears much responsibility for his own death, even if he didn't know the cops were cops. You don't pull on superman's cape, you don't spit into the wind.
It's entirely possible he didn't point it at anyone or anything, not even the cops, and they're lying and we'll never know. But all of that seems far, far less likely, and unless we get more data from witnesses saying he was basically menacing with his playgun, we'll never know.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

An innocent person being shot and killed is as serious failure of the system as an innocent being executed.

Both are certainly tragic and the inability to guarantee innocence is one of the many reason I oppose the death penalty, but this is not at all a realistic comparison.

Decisions made in the heat of the moment with adrenaline pumping in a dangerous situation where the person shot may or may not have played some role in provoking the response (innocent of the actual crime or not) can not in any plausible way be called as big a failure of the justice system as convicting, upholding that conviction through multiple appeals, and finally executing an innocent person in a situation that usually takes at least a decade or more and is done from the calm and safe environment of a court room.

Even good police officers can unfortunately make mistakes in a tense situation. The kind of perfection you're calling for here is not humanly possible. Which is not to say we shouldn't strive for it and learn from those mistakes.

 

[mtblillie]

^ essentially the point I was trying to make, but said much better said. Thank you!

 

[SmoothieX]

enough said about the act but looking at the place it happened it is one of the 'bad' parts of my town. Me and two friends drove there, to handy and troop, to buy pot and were punched in the head because we did not want the crack they were selling we just wanted pot.

No sympathy from me on this one. If you want to drive to shady areas of town and buy illegal drugs, that's a you problem.

 

[think]

enough said about the act but looking at the place it happened it is one of the 'bad' parts of my town. Me and two friends drove there, to handy and troop, to buy pot and were punched in the head because we did not want the crack they were selling we just wanted pot.

No sympathy from me on this one. If you want to drive to shady areas of town and buy illegal drugs, that's a you problem.

i heard more about the pipe that did not exist as per witnesses that I have talked to.. and or stick ,,

not looking for sympathy for me just adding the fact that the police were in that kind of shady neighborhood and just because we missed the hood-memo that the corner had gone from pot to crack is not something the police would miss ..

also heard there was heron on person that was killed but this is speculative for now..

 

[Miss Chicken]

Even if the police shooting was justified, it still doesn't explain the fact that the police spokesperson and the police chief told mistruths and tried to put the blame onto Mr Zerby before any investigation had been completed. That was totally unprofessional and only fuels the belief that police tried to coverup any mistakes that they made.

Pretty much the same thing happened after the shooting of John T Williams by officer Ian Birk. The Seattle Police Department quickly released a statement saying that Williams was advancing towards Birk with the knife and that Birk felt threatened and therefore shot Wiliams. However once eyewitnesses started to come forward to say that Birk was lying the SPD quickly retracted their statement, a statement they
should not have made before interviewing witnesses or before the autopsy was done.

In the end it was proved that the shooting was unjustified though no charges were laid against Birk.

 

[Chaos Descending]

I'm not finding anything that I consider particularly objectionable in regards to police statements after the Zerby incident.

Miss Chicken, could you quote some of the comments you found to be objectionable, or give me a link where I could read them?

 

[Miss Chicken]

In his very first press conference which can be viewed on this page

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ding-GARDEN-HOSE-nozzle-gun-chief-admits.html

The police chief states, at around the 4 1/2 minute mark, that when Zerby became aware of the police he raised his 'weapon' and pointed it at police. He made this statement despite there being absolutely no proof that Zerby ever became aware of the police presence.