Plot hole in Wrath of Khan, or am I thinking wrong?

[Leathco]

Alright, so at the end of Wrath of Khan, he arms the Genesis device, and Enterprise must dart out of range before it blows. What I have always wondered is why not just beam it into space at maximum dispersion to destroy it? It's obvious that Reliant doesn't have shields at this point, and Enterprise still has transporter capability when the suggestion is made to beam over and shut the device off before David says they can't.

 

[StarCruiser]

Probably because they didn't know WHERE in the Reliant that device actually was...

Remember that Khan had to get the coordinates before he could beam it out of Regula 1.

 

[Sgt_G]

Perhaps because it was in an energy build-up, that would have prevented a transporter lock.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Perhaps because it was in an energy build-up, that would have prevented a transporter lock.

Yeah. When David says that you can't stop it, you sorta have to assume that that means that there is no way to stop it at all using their tech in any way. He's the genius scientist, so he should know.

More to the point, David's dialog at that point in the movie is brief exposition establishing the plot point that it cannot be stopped.

 

[Timo]

Indeed. Although more technically, it could be a case of "can't" in several ways:

1) It's way too late already.

When Genesis really gets going, it's no longer a pile of physical components: it's a bluey-glowing swirl of strange radiation. For all we know, the pile of physical components on Khan's transporter pad was the only thing still keeping the radiation from doing its thing! Dispersing that would not exactly help matters.

2) Kirk proposes the wrong method.

What Genesis does to matter is pretty similar to what transporter does to matter, only more so. Combining the two might be a phenomenally bad idea. When David says "You can't", he may actually be saying "You can't beam over", and Jim understands (from earlier discussions of the theory with Carol or from consulting the brochures) that you can't do anything else with "beam" in it, either.

3) David is actually wrong.

He is the creator of Genesis, after all, explicitly reluctant to ponder issues of destruction. Perhaps he has too limited an understanding of the Powers of Evil at his father's disposal?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Trekkin]

Heh. Just realised Joachim and David had a lot in common.

Father figure: Do the obvious thing that you would have already done if it were possible!
Not-quiet-son: I/We can't!

I wonder what would have happened if either ship has shields? Would Reliant's have contained the effect/gas/whatnot ala the shielded big hole through the bridge in Nemesis? Would it have achieved diddly squat?

 

[Christopher]

I wonder what would have happened if either ship has shields? Would Reliant's have contained the effect/gas/whatnot ala the shielded big hole through the bridge in Nemesis? Would it have achieved diddly squat?

Presumably the Genesis torpedo would've broken down the matter of the ship into its component particles, which means the shield generators would've suffered existence failure along with the rest.

 

[Timo]

Depending on the timing, the wave might also have bounced back from the insides of the shields, though, potentially undoing its earlier work on the way back... A reflected and then potentially re-re-re-reflected wave might have resulted in an effect of drastically shorter range. Or then drastically more disgusting end results!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[137th Gebirg]

There is also the possibility that the particular nature of the properties within the Mutara Nebula made beaming impossible, in the same way that sensors were inoperable and they were both groping around in the dark, unable to find and target each other - "Sauce for the goose"! It is fair to assume that you would need some kind of long-distance scanning/sensor ability to acquire a reliable lock on the object(s) being transported. If one the one cannot be established then, by inference, neither can the other.

 

[DonIago]

^Not so sure about this one, as Uhura was telling Reliant to prepare to be boarded IIRC. Well, and Kirk says they'll beam aboard to stop it. Granted Uhura may have been bluffing and/or Kirk may have forgotten beaming wasn't an option, but I think the better option is to assume that transporters were an option, but beaming aboard Reliant wouldn't have helped with the Genesis issue.

 

[137th Gebirg]

There are always shuttles.

 

[Christopher]

There are always shuttles.

Except in "The Enemy Within."

 

[DonIago]

They were all dealing with a crisis in the Laurentian System.

 

[Scout101]

Maybe it would have caused DIFFERENT bad things, but would have thought destroying it would have been worth a shot too. If the device actually DOES something, then destroying it before the big release/action would seem to be of value. But maybe it just would have meant bigger explosion, so don't try it...

 

[Christopher]

Maybe it would have caused DIFFERENT bad things, but would have thought destroying it would have been worth a shot too. If the device actually DOES something, then destroying it before the big release/action would seem to be of value. But maybe it just would have meant bigger explosion, so don't try it...

Look at it this way: If they'd destroyed the Reliant in the last moments before Genesis went off, then Spock would still have died... and he wouldn't have come back. Talk about the Law of Unintended Consequences...

 

[Trekkin]

There are always shuttles.

Except in "The Enemy Within."

They all arrived on the following Tuesday.

 

[Ithekro]

"They were having difficulty adapting them to the cold."

 

[matthunter]

There are always shuttles.

Except in "The Enemy Within."

They all arrived on the following Tuesday.

Lol. Realistically though, could a novice crew prep a shuttle in the time available? Then there's flight time and the wee matter of Reliant's bay doors being closed...

 

[Christopher]

Realistically though, could a novice crew prep a shuttle in the time available?

They don't seem to need much prepping, given how easy it is for any random person to hijack a shuttle.

 

[Timo]

Well, that was during various operational sorties, where different rules to keeping shuttles at hot standby might apply.

We really don't know what is involved in prepping a TOS or TNG era shuttle for flight: usually, our heroes give plenty of lead time to the deck workers to do their unseen magic before they themselves board the craft. Sometimes in TNG, there is smoke involved (for reasons better left unmentioned); perhaps shuttles on occasion need to be filled with cryogenics, or then merely washed? Sometimes we see cables lying about, or tooling (mainly in matte paintings, though, not on sets).

Cases where we can be certain there were no deckhands around to help the immediate preflight preps include "Mudd's Passion" and a few of the VOY shuttle hijack hijinks. But in TOS, we could in theory argue that the villains coerced the shuttles out of the hands of the personnel working on them, by false authority or superior powers or whatnot, as there were no visuals associated with that part of the hijack.

Timo Saloniemi