Spoilers Please explain the baddie plan

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by F. King Daniel, Apr 14, 2023.

  1. HotRod

    HotRod Commodore Commodore

    Jan 19, 2011
    Reaper Occupied Earth
    How Dare You! Blasphemy! Just because you are not smart enough to appreciate the gifts that Lord Terry, Matalas be thy name, has given us, doesn't give you the right to sully his ascension. Repent your sins, or face His wrath.

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  2. Yistaan

    Yistaan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jul 27, 2018
    Every romantic prospect by Picard was actually a Borg agent sent to ensure the creation of a "Jack". Even Vash was sent by time traveling Borg with future knowledge.

    Without the Borg, Picard would've had no romantic prospects and his dating reality would be "Get away from me you bald creep!" :eek:
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  3. TerryTrek

    TerryTrek Captain Captain

    Feb 20, 2023
    The plan is very easy to understand.

    The Borg are dying (post-Endgame). They need to reinforce their ranks to survive.

    The Queen is able to reach out to Picard's son, thanks to his Vox abilities. She wants to use him as a voice to control an assimilated Starfleet.

    The Changelings (who also want revenge on Starfleet) are sent to sabotage the transporters on Starfleet vessels, so officers are given that Borg DNA strand (from the Picard corpse).

    The Queen orders the Changelings to capture Jack ASAP because Frontier Day is the ideal time to activate the assimilated officers.

    It's not that complicated.

    The Queen's association with Vadic will be expanded on in Ep 10.
  4. Yistaan

    Yistaan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jul 27, 2018
    It's not complicated BUT it hinges on a very unlikely series of events (and AGT shows a legit future where Picard's Borg DNA went forever unrecognized as such and he was on his way to dying a lonely old man with "irumodic syndrome" without ever reproducing a Borg messiah)
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  5. TerryTrek

    TerryTrek Captain Captain

    Feb 20, 2023
    It really doesn't hinge on anything except;

    - the theft of Picard's body

    - the changelings capturing Jack (that was the original plan, before Jack tried to go it alone and go AWOL)

    - the changelings messing with the transporters

    - Frontier Day (when they are showing off the ships being networked together)

    These things are not that unlikely.

    And "All Good Things" was just a potential future that was created by Q intentionally.

    Q didn't want to reveal the truth about Picard to him just yet. Maybe we'll get payoff for that next week.
  6. Yistaan

    Yistaan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jul 27, 2018
    People forget it was still a legitimate feasible timeline in its own right. It had to be. Otherwise the trick of Picard causing the anomaly by requesting an inverse tachyon pulse in the Devron system in that timeline wouldn't have caused an actual anomaly.

    To put it simply, Q didn't "create" the AGT future. He AVERTED it by showing it to Picard. It's the future that would have happened had Q not interfered.
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  7. TerryTrek

    TerryTrek Captain Captain

    Feb 20, 2023
    It could have. Easily. Qs have proven that can alter reality on any level, so the whole thing could have been fashioned by the continuum as Picard's test.

    It was certainly presented that way with the dialogue in the courtroom at the end.

    There's no real evidence of that.

    Remember that whole test for Picard was developed by the continuum, not Q himself. It was the next phase of the trial.

    And even if you accept AGT as a possible future, Irumodic syndrome could have been easily misdiagnosed in that timeline as well.
  8. Yistaan

    Yistaan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jul 27, 2018
    That's what i said,it was borg dna in agt.BUT no borg attack happened involving picard
  9. TerryTrek

    TerryTrek Captain Captain

    Feb 20, 2023
    Yep, and as you know there was no Jack in AGT either, and who knows whether Voyager even happened in that timeline.

    Picard would have still had the misdiagnosed Irumodic Syndrome in AGT though, because Best of Both Worlds still happened.

    It was supposed to kill him eventually in the AGT timeline, and it killed him in Picard Season 1.

    I am impressed they managed to make something good come out of that very controversial Synthetic Picard storyline in S1.
    gweeps likes this.
  10. Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 8, 2003
    My question is:

    (I don't remember the exact age they said was the cutoff for the Borg infiltration to work. Was it 25? We'll say 25)

    Anyway, let's say Frontier Day was April 16, 2401. Let's say Ensign Randy Randerson's birthday was April 26. Randerson was born in 2376. Would he be affected? What if he was born at noon (Mountain Time), but the Borg attack happened at noon (Eastern Time)?

    I ask this in jest, but seriously, I need answers ;) :lol:
  11. Tosk

    Tosk Admiral Admiral

    Jan 7, 2001
    On the run.
    A mess of Changelings couldn't catch one dude, despite having the element of surprise. AND instead of simply removing the tiny piece of dead Picard that they needed, they stole a portal device and fucked up the place, throwing their weight around. Rather than being a distraction, it actually drew attention. The Changeling on the Titan keeps both his bucket and the corpse of the guy he replaced, both in easily found places.

    The plan may or may not be complicated, but they certainly did a shit job of it. And for my money, the villain combo exemplifies the problem that often happens when trying to team-up bad guys.
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  12. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    It's not a hard-and-fast limit. The idea is that human brains finish developing around age 25, but it would vary from person, just like how kids don't start puberty precisely on their twelfth birthday and complete it the day they turn sixteen or something. It might also be complicated by other factors, like how recently the person first went through a tainted transporter (it would probably take some time for their altered DNA to be expressed and actually change their brains). And, of course, it would be different for aliens, as well. Ocampa would probably become immune around two-and-a-half, Vulcans may be susceptible into their forties.
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  13. SiorX

    SiorX Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Nov 8, 2007
    I just wanted ten hours of these characters hanging out. The plot could have been any nonsense at all.

    Alas, I did not get the character stuff I craved. Turns out nobody has stayed in touch, and when they do all get together, everyone just talks about their kids. Grim realism!

    I've been blaming the convoluted plot for leaving no breathing room for the characters to bond or have any fun together. But maybe not everyone wants to just watch these people play poker and make fun of each other's beards etc.:lol:
  14. Sci

    Sci Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Mar 2, 2002
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    Best takedown of PIC S3 ever. :guffaw::guffaw::guffaw:
  15. Yistaan

    Yistaan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jul 27, 2018
    Except for a line or 2 you'd be forgiven for forgetting that Kestra exists. And while Matalas said in a real world interview she's at early enrollment in Starfleet Academy or something, Riker and Troi sure don't act concerned considering that it seems very likely she's probably a Borg right now if she is indeed at the Academy.

    Let's not even get into Alexander.
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  16. Jarvisimo

    Jarvisimo Captain Captain

    Jan 4, 2011
    It's not about the plot being nonsense (which it is), it's the harm it does to the world building and reality of the Federation and world of Star Trek "behind the scenes", or rather that off camera - this season presents a world of mass incompetence, on everyone's part, and takes away from the fictional world by shrinking it enormously.

    Any comparison with The Undiscovered Country fails at that point as a send off, as that grew its world (not mercilessly cut it down), and equally with "What You Leave Behind" or "All Good Things". None of those finales fucked up the world by making everyone else stupid or having over the top villains (not even pah wraith Dukat, as we had a season and a half leading to that, and a long history of his own "believing his own bullshit and tragedy myth" going back to season 3 at least), nor have especially non-sensical plots, in pursuit of one final adventure with each crew.

    Nor did any of them - even TUC, as our closest comparison, or AGT, with its seven year later flashbacks - use unwarranted nostalgia to tell their stories (or rather use nostalgia instead of a story). I think they actually expected their audiences to critically engage with them, to think the story had to be its best.

    They work, and sadly season 3 of Picard doesn't work because as a mystery box it just couldn't tell the story it wanted to tell straight up, had to have (multiple) secret villains, and just be "wham bam don't think about it ma'am" as the only way to enjoy it.

    Soooo frustrating, given what we could have had - namely a TUC that gives not only it's cast dignity*, but respected the world it depicted, and didn't take a series of cheap decisions designed to coast on your familiarity with the past greatest hits.

    *(Except perhaps a certain scene with Uhura and language books)
  17. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

    Apr 27, 2001
    It’s almost as bad as Luke’s “plan” for saving Han in Jaba’s Palace. “I’ve taken care of everything” was basically having Lando there and Artoo with his lightsaber. Artoo came through. Lando almost became sarlaac food shortly into the fight.
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  18. Racefuel

    Racefuel Commodore Commodore

    Sep 3, 2016
    Southern Oregon
    Trek utopia has been dead since Season 4 of TNG and was one of the earliest things disposed of once GR was removed as show runner of Star Trek.

    It was less obvious in TNG, became more clear in DS9 and frankly seems more like a reasonable world now than it did then.
    fireproof78 likes this.
  19. Yistaan

    Yistaan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jul 27, 2018
    There's a difference between being a realistic non-utopia and a society where a fleet wide catastrophe literally happens exactly every 17 years (Battle of Wolf 359 in 2367, the Vau N'Akat massacre of 2384, and now the Frontier Day catastrophe of 2401, and I'm not even counting the Dominion War in all this), and Starfleet infiltrated so often you literally have 2 hostile groups infiltrating Starfleet at the same time circa 2399 (the Zhat Vash and the rogue Changelings).

    Star Trek's society circa late 24th century early 25th century is looking a lot like Star Wars' "always in a war" galaxy.
    Jarvisimo likes this.
  20. hellojane

    hellojane Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Aug 14, 2019
    More like everyone just talks about Jack lol.

    If they hadn't mentioned her when they were captured and earlier in the season, I'd for sure assume she had been erased. Riker didn't seem the least bit concerned about her all the times he thought he was dying earlier in the season. Neither of them seem the least bit concerned now. I guess we're supposed to be going with that only the Frontier Day fleet is effected but you'd think they'd be more concerned given what Matalas said and all the talk from both of them about the the loss of the other kid for eight straight episodes. For a show so focused on legacy, you'd think they'd want to remind the audience that they still have a kid out there.

    Geordi also sure got over seeing his daughters being assimilated fast as well.

    Alexander is probably long dead by this point or living his best life somewhere. I'm sure Worf doesn't know either way.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2023
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