Play matchmaker for Janeway

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Of course she would pick Sullivan 2.0.

Every one dreams of being able to tweak like that.

As I said somewhere or other Janeway's type is the warm hearted handyman. With intellect, education and a sharp, provocative mind.

 

[Violet.Phoenix]

One thing I got out of the Sullivan relationship is that we actually see what Janeway wants because she programs him. I think its very significant that she says "make him more provocative". Chakotay is really lacking that, it's not a word you'd ever use to describe him. Perhaps if he had been less passive Janeway would have found her resolve to put her Captaincy first a little more challenged.

I agree, Chakotay was just... there a lot of the time. Even when he challenged Janeway she usually won out in the end. You have to wonder if he had had a little more 'oomph' in his personality if things would have gone differently.

I rather liked Jaffen. I don't think she was in love with Kashyk at all but she was quite likely in lust/attracted to him. Playing the role of seducing him to believe in her would have rubbed off on her as well.

I liked Jaffen too He was such a sweet guy, and that goodbye scene at the end of 'Workforce' breaks my heart every time.

I think too that with Kashyk it was much more of an 'events and circumstances' sort of thing combined with a sort of mutual attraction.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I rather liked Jaffen. I don't think she was in love with Kashyk at all but she was quite likely in lust/attracted to him. Playing the role of seducing him to believe in her would have rubbed off on her as well.

You do remember that they were living together?

Although.

it's quite likely that she was programmed to make roots and form connections, so that she would find it more impossible to look for another job on a different part of the planet.

If kathryn was compelled to find a live in boyfriend and couldn't help herself, then maybe Jaffin couldn't have made the cut ordinarily?

Sure she did ask him to join Voyagers crew, but that's the secret gamble of taking home drunk people from night clubs, when they wake up already covered in your issue, they have to justify decisions they can't remember and assume that you would have made the cut if they were sober, which allows you at least one more attempt at sex in the morning before they decided to flee or stay, hangover permitting.

The Prime Directive.

It's only okay to take home "strangers" who are as equally drunk as you are.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

One thing I got out of the Sullivan relationship is that we actually see what Janeway wants because she programs him. I think its very significant that she says "make him more provocative". Chakotay is really lacking that, it's not a word you'd ever use to describe him. Perhaps if he had been less passive Janeway would have found her resolve to put her Captaincy first a little more challenged.

I agree, Chakotay was just... there a lot of the time. Even when he challenged Janeway she usually won out in the end. You have to wonder if he had had a little more 'oomph' in his personality if things would have gone differently.

The whole Angry Warrior story translated to "I am passive, you are in charge." The first time I saw it I was like.. wth, that's not what she wants in a man. I think that's part of why she values 7 because 7 is provocative. Of course she's way over the top but because of her background Janeway can give her leeway she would never allow if it was, say, Paris speaking to her like that.

The other problem with the Angry Warrior story is.. when is Chakotay ever angry? He didn't even have much of a reaction to the Seska betrayal.. he could have had a huge enraged scene over that. Now if he had told a Peaceful Warrior story it would have made more sense. Yes apparently he found peace as Janeways manservant at the end of the story but it's not like we see an angry past anywhere in his nature.

He's the sort of guy that a woman kind of looks over the shoulder of to find someone more exciting and then wakes up after some years and men have passed and realizes how compatible they really are. I thought it completely believable that they ended up together in the books (and a giant Fuck You to the fans that they immediately killed her after one night).

If Chakotay had been provocative angry maquis warrior with a spiritual side I'd be a total J/C'er. And yet I'm glad too that Voyager isn't a romance but about a leader finding a way home for her people.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Voyager is a romance.

It's just a romance about the helmboy and the chief engineer.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

For a supposedly bad boy and a Klingon babe that romance was incredibly domestic.

 

[Violet.Phoenix]

One thing I got out of the Sullivan relationship is that we actually see what Janeway wants because she programs him. I think its very significant that she says "make him more provocative". Chakotay is really lacking that, it's not a word you'd ever use to describe him. Perhaps if he had been less passive Janeway would have found her resolve to put her Captaincy first a little more challenged.

I agree, Chakotay was just... there a lot of the time. Even when he challenged Janeway she usually won out in the end. You have to wonder if he had had a little more 'oomph' in his personality if things would have gone differently.

The whole Angry Warrior story translated to "I am passive, you are in charge." The first time I saw it I was like.. wth, that's not what she wants in a man. I think that's part of why she values 7 because 7 is provocative. Of course she's way over the top but because of her background Janeway can give her leeway she would never allow if it was, say, Paris speaking to her like that.

The other problem with the Angry Warrior story is.. when is Chakotay ever angry? He didn't even have much of a reaction to the Seska betrayal.. he could have had a huge enraged scene over that. Now if he had told a Peaceful Warrior story it would have made more sense. Yes apparently he found peace as Janeways manservant at the end of the story but it's not like we see an angry past anywhere in his nature.

He's the sort of guy that a woman kind of looks over the shoulder of to find someone more exciting and then wakes up after some years and men have passed and realizes how compatible they really are. I thought it completely believable that they ended up together in the books (and a giant Fuck You to the fans that they immediately killed her after one night).

If Chakotay had been provocative angry maquis warrior with a spiritual side I'd be a total J/C'er. And yet I'm glad too that Voyager isn't a romance but about a leader finding a way home for her people.

That's very true about 7, also true about Paris because he can be rather snarky. I've always found that with Janeway and Paris is that they make great verbal sparring partners, because they've both got guts (and they make great character foils for eachother).

To me J/C made sense because they built it up, but it's not without it's flaws. I totally agree that making Chakotay less passive would have made the J/C relationship way more interesting. Imagine the intense discussions they would have had.

Oh the books. I'm still bitter over that giant 'fuck you' moment where KJ was killed off, and I probably will be bitter until she is back, alive and happily with Chakotay. With the whole 'one night together' thing, I view it as 'well at least we got some J/C', but I'm still not happy that they put Chakotay through that. The poor guy was almost destroyed by Janeway's death!

 

[Guy Gardener]

For a supposedly bad boy and a Klingon babe that romance was incredibly domestic.

Sometimes relationships are easy.

Not everything is Heathcliff and Catherine.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

For a supposedly bad boy and a Klingon babe that romance was incredibly domestic.

Sometimes relationships are easy.

Not everything is Heathcliff and Catherine.

This is television. For romance you need something more than replicated popcorn in front of an antique tv.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

With the whole 'one night together' thing, I view it as 'well at least we got some J/C',

You know I've always been J/7 though I usually keep my potential Chakotay mockery to myself because I like this forum to be a happy place. But if I was going to totally flip the bird to the J/C romance crowd (which is mostly women) that is just the way I would write it. Give them what they want and then give them the biggest Fuck You ever. Maniacal laughter etc..

Yeah I'm bitter, it seems quite likely to me that there was an element of that from Peter David.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Most relationships are awful.

If it wasn't for kids, the divorce rate would treble and the presence of new marriages would 1/4.

Star Trek is not Dystopian.

The indystopianitudity should extend to all facets of startreacianess.

Besides after Bev and Picard, as well as Riker and Dee... I know I was owed a happily ever after in the shortfall.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I wonder what B'Elanna thought of Grease.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I feel that she's more of a Grease II sort of girl.

 

[Violet.Phoenix]

With the whole 'one night together' thing, I view it as 'well at least we got some J/C',

You know I've always been J/7 though I usually keep my potential Chakotay mockery to myself because I like this forum to be a happy place. But if I was going to totally flip the bird to the J/C romance crowd (which is mostly women) that is just the way I would write it. Give them what they want and then give them the biggest Fuck You ever. Maniacal laughter etc..

Yeah I'm bitter, it seems quite likely to me that there was an element of that from Peter David.

I try to find the positive in it, but really there isn't; it's still a huge insult to J/C fans and more importantly to Janeway fans. I don't blame Peter David for the choice of killing off Janeway, that's a problem I have with the editors who decided on that. I blame him for how he killed off Janeway. If you're going to kill off a character, do it in a damn respectful way, not some shitty capture and transformation by an enemy that said character has defeated on numerous occasions. That's what really ticked me off.

On another note, is it ironic that I'm a huge J/C fan and yet I still poke fun at Chuckles on occasion?

 

[Guy Gardener]

How would you have killed her then if you had been put in Pete's position?

 

[Violet.Phoenix]

How would have killed her then if you had been put in Pete's position?

To be perfectly honest I would rather not kill Janeway at all, but if I was forced to and had no choice this would be my general plan:

- Have it done in a Voyager novel. A captain should die in a novel of their own respective series imo.
- Janeway should be in command of Voyager, defending the Federation for what it is and upholding the principles that are in her blood. How she died in BD was not heroic (as some claim) because she was turned into the very enemy that she despised and fought against for years.
- If she died on the battlefield, she would be a hero. I think that that is her place, to fight, command and if it came to it, to die on the bridge of a starship.
- Aside from that, I would be perfectly happy to see her go and live a happy life with Chakotay away from all of this, but I don't think that she could stay away.

But as for having her die by the hands of the Borg: NO.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Chokes on pot roast charcoal. Starfleet, in an orgy of mourning, orders all replicators to be fitted with safety over rides.

 

[Lighthammer]

I'm kind of surprised no one here likes that Janeway got assimilated as the Borg Queen. It seemed really fitting.

I don't particular mind that plot development, but I do have to admit having her die was a bit extreme. I think the events of Q&A and Full Circle could have collided to allow Janeway to be rescued when "They" restored the borg.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But becoming Q's sex slave wasn't?