Piller's tell-all book on Insurrection (unpublished)

[inflatabledalek]

I've just started reading the book and am looking forward into finding out... well not what went wrong as I'm one of the strange and unusual people who doesn't mind Insurrection (it's biggest flaw for me is that it's really hard to give a toss about the Baku), but what might have been that could have made it a more successful film.

I wonder if the dedication to Berman is a bit tongue in cheek, or if their relationship (both as professionals and friends) did surrvive what seems to have been a very trying experience for all. I guess reading on will tell...

 

[Vasquez Rocks]

I have to give credit to some of the Paramount suits for accurately pointing out that Crusher should be given more to do and to stop with the pointless cameos since there are seven actors in the cast that should be serviced first. Pretty surprising that they would even notice or care. Too bad not much was done except for the elimination of the cameos.

 

[Maurice]

That's the main trouble with all four Next Generation movies, and it was a problem from the top-down. Berman was a television producer, he made his four films on a television scale, with television writers and directors.

Harve Bennett was a television producer too. Nicholas Meyer was a novelist who had directed one feature film, Time After Time, with a TV-movie feel. Jack B. Sowards was also a TV guy; TWOK is his only feature film. Somehow, those guys made it work despite a lack of feature film experience.

Hate to say it, but the bulk of TWOK is shot like a TV movie.

 

[inflatabledalek]

I have to give credit to some of the Paramount suits for accurately pointing out that Crusher should be given more to do and to stop with the pointless cameos since there are seven actors in the cast that should be serviced first. Pretty surprising that they would even notice or care. Too bad not much was done except for the elimination of the cameos.

Indeed. It's actually a story with no villains which isn't what I was expecting, just about all the suggestions everyone makes, including the suits, are good ones, it's the execution that lets it down for some reason.

Therefore, even though the Stardust synopsis seems better on paper (bar some rough stuff that would hopefully have been worked out as they went along) I'm not sure if we'd have wound up with a better film.

It is odd how bits and bobs wound up in Nemesis though, potential lasting peace with the Romulans as the hook, a drastic make over for them and their ships and a villain who isn't a Romulan (or only half in Stardust's case) who's renounced his alien heritage. Considering Stewart's stated hatred for the Romulans in his letters included in the book I have to wonder how they managed to work them into the next one without him objecting to the same extent.

 

[lurok]

^Possibly they never came up with a better idea for Stewart for NEM so he conceded. Plus he gets a lot more screentime/centre action in NEM (can you imagine if he actually doubled Shinzon as well!) and dune buggy driving and ass-kicking to appeal to his vanity. Crusher, Worf and Geordi - even Riker to an extent - really felt sidelined in that one compared to INS.

 

[inflatabledalek]

Indeed. Whilst I can understand Picard and Data being treated as the leads as they were the most popular characters it should have been easier to give everyone their little moments, something the TOS movies had become very good at by the end.

Oh, and another carry over from the Stardust treatment is the not-Romulan fancying the pants off Troi and that backfiring on him.

It's interesting how much Levar Burton loved the Insurrection script, considering he's been one of the finished films biggest critics.

 

[GNDN]

The Romulans in NEM don't have the most central role, and that is yet another criticism that fans, and I, have with the film. I do understand Stewart's stance regarding INS that it could be better to avoid warming over another old adversary (especially after FC), but if you ARE going to involve the Romulans (NEM) then USE THEM, don't sideline them to focus on Reman Nosferatus and an unexplained power grab by a former slave.

The Romulans have gotten the short stick time and again, up to and including ST 09, where again we don't see the actions of the empire, but of a rogue, misguided splinter group. Sadly, with all the budget and schedule limitations imposed on the TNG films even a Romulan epic may have come across as disappointing upon execution.

 

[ClayinCA]

That's the main trouble with all four Next Generation movies, and it was a problem from the top-down. Berman was a television producer, he made his four films on a television scale, with television writers and directors.

Harve Bennett was a television producer too. Nicholas Meyer was a novelist who had directed one feature film, Time After Time, with a TV-movie feel. Jack B. Sowards was also a TV guy; TWOK is his only feature film. Somehow, those guys made it work despite a lack of feature film experience.

Hate to say it, but the bulk of TWOK is shot like a TV movie.

Hardly surprising, since The Wrath of Khan was produced by Paramount's television division, with the intent that it could be shown on TV instead of in theatres if the studio (which at that time felt it had been badly burned by Star Trek: the Motion Picture) didn't think it was good enough to release theatrically.

Captrek does have a point when he says that Bennett and Sowards were TV guys (indeed, so were the directors of Star Treks III through V), but unlike Rick Berman, Harve Bennett had the ability to go beyond the television mentality - and unlike Berman, he never lost sight of the fact that a good film sinks or swims on its story and its characters.

I agree with pretty much everything Allyn Gibson has said here; I've always thought the biggest disadvantage the Next Generation films had was the "television-like" aura that permeates all of them, especially the first three; as Allyn also points out, the only really cinematic Next Generation film was the last one, and even then the film was hampered by having a director who had no knowledge of or interest in the source material and a writer who had no understanding of the characters.

 

[Kronos]

Therefore, even though the Stardust synopsis seems better on paper (bar some rough stuff that would hopefully have been worked out as they went along) I'm not sure if we'd have wound up with a better film.

Exactly, after reading this all the way through it's clear ST9 was doomed from the get go, no amount of tinkering was going to fix the original flawed idea.

 

[Pineapples101]

So... is it my version of the book you guys are reading?
http://issuu.com/pineapples101

 

[los2188]

Does anyone know where I can find and read this tell-all book about Insurrection...? A movie that I hated and thought that was nothing more than a 2 hour episode of Star Trek TNG...

 

[Pineapples101]

I suggest you do a google search for 'FADE IN: From Idea to Final Draft The Writing of Star Trek: Insurrection'.

 

[los2188]

I suggest you do a google search for 'FADE IN: From Idea to Final Draft The Writing of Star Trek: Insurrection'.

Wow!!! You're good. Thank you. I'm very impressed. I was kind of hesitant in coming to this Trekker blog forum cuz most of my friends kinda look down on Trekkers or Trekkies as nerds, but it's nice to be able to talk to people about it so where as I don't have to hide or anything. Thank you. I mean that a lot.

 

[HaventGotALife]

I think Insurrection is a good movie. It does exploring for the first time in a long time. It puts Data in danger and uses Picard's brain (by singing a British Tar) to test him to see if he can regain control of him. It sets up an interesting relationship between the Son'a and Ba'Ku. The decision by the Federation council is one we make every day in US foreign policy considering oil and the Middle East. It is an interesting question whether the Prime Directive would apply. We have seen other officers take off the pips, but not Picard. The only mistake is not to let Picard stay behind at the end of the movie.

Where it fails is in the campy humor. Playing with a joystick on the bridge. Picard's delivery of the line "his emotion chip?" etc. It's a mistake not to be light-hearted at the beginning. And F. Murray Abraham's performance, really all the people working with the Son'a are straight out of Star Trek bad guy camp.

I think the consequences would be tastier if Data had died. I would have more invested in seeing a good outcome on this planet. It doesn't have to be completely dark. Picard can be driven by his desire to see Data's memory, his death, have some meaning. That's honorable.

The Stardust plot seems misguided. Heart of Darkness is incredibly difficult to do without voice-overs and/or characters to get our main character's thoughts out. The mood of the story, his perception of the evil around him, is as important as anything else in the story.

Romulans? Who cares. Picard's friend? Again, who cares?

We killed Data anyway. This would seem a better reason for him to die. To be absolutely right and for us to do the wrong thing.

 

[Mark 2000]

Essentially Piller seems to view Kirk as just a conqueror, engaging in gunboat diplomacy, while Picard is just an enlightened diplomat.

I think you're both wrong for trying to pigeon hole these two guys. Kirk was an open minded guy, but he also disrupted several cultures with phasers and laughed it off with a speech. "Children! You know? The little ones. They grow? You'll figure it out." LOL!

Picard has been very self righteous, but he also usually sides more with the Prime Directive and hardly ever intervenes disastrously. I think if it was kirk (and I love kirk) in "Justice" he would have torpedoed the Edo god to save Wesley.

 

[BillJ]

I think if it was kirk (and I love kirk) in "Justice" he would have torpedoed the Edo god to save Wesley.

This shows you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Mark 2000]

I think if it was kirk (and I love kirk) in "Justice" he would have torpedoed the Edo god to save Wesley.

This shows you have no idea what you're talking about.

Really? He destroys Vaal, Eminiar 7, Landru, the Oracle of Yonada. Granted that if Justice was a TOS episode there might be a bit more at stake than a kid, like the whole ship. Perhaps Kirk would annoy the God enough that it would lash out at the ship and he would have "no choice". But Kirk has never had a problem severely changing the evolutionary path of an entire planet for the safety of his ship and crew. On top of that he had a personal conviction that living things should not be controlled by machines. So, who knows, he may have torpedoed the Edo god based on that ideal alone.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

The Romulans in NEM don't have the most central role, and that is yet another criticism that fans, and I, have with the film. I do understand Stewart's stance regarding INS that it could be better to avoid warming over another old adversary (especially after FC), but if you ARE going to involve the Romulans (NEM) then USE THEM, don't sideline them to focus on Reman Nosferatus and an unexplained power grab by a former slave.

The Romulans have gotten the short stick time and again, up to and including ST 09, where again we don't see the actions of the empire, but of a rogue, misguided splinter group. Sadly, with all the budget and schedule limitations imposed on the TNG films even a Romulan epic may have come across as disappointing upon execution.

Why, exactly, do Romulans automatically make for a good movie? It's a bit strange to criticize a movie based on a fan's hope against anything and everything else. Do Andorian fans and Pakled fans say the same thing? The movies need to focus on those races in order to be entertaining for them?

It's like saying (and I'm just being facetious) :
- Hangover 2 sucked, it should have been set in Moscow
- I didn't like X-Men 2 because Colossus wasn't the main character
- Star Trek 11 sucked because Janeway didn't show up
- etc

It's not a judgement on the movie, it's simply being unreasonable.

It's kind of arbitrary and has nothing to do with anything, really, except being unfair to oneself and the franchise.

Nowhere was there a promise of Romulans being and doing everything a Romulan fan would want, so why set oneself up for failed and unrealistic expectations?

 

[CaptMurdock]

So... is it my version of the book you guys are reading?
http://issuu.com/pineapples101

Thank you for the link. Personally, I found it informative, but hardly the blunt "Berman Dearest" screed that there seemed to be so much buzz about.

Maybe I'm prejudiced, because I'm one of those weirdos who liked Insurrection.