Pick 1 Episode, Add, Modify or Delete One Thing To Improve It

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Spock's Barber, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Rear Admiral Commodore

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    Wouldn't and shouldn't the woman though face charges for going aboard a ship they know is stolen? Isn't that the same as aiding a criminal act? Unless you have a Patty Hearst type of situation were we figure his control was so powerful they couldn't help themselves.

    I also have a theory that Mudd ended up getting off kind of light, which allowed him to meet the alien robots is because the woman didn't testify against him and the ship he stole was owned by Stella and her dad's business. He ratted them out and got out of jail. Stella and her Dad, if he is still alive might be doing jail time because of him.


    Jason
     
  2. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    Kirk explicitly says that the only charges are against Mudd though, so for whatever reason they are considered to be just innocent passengers.

    Like the theory about the stolen ship! Very Mudd... :techman:
     
  3. MAGolding

    MAGolding Commander Red Shirt

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    I always thought that Kirk had the legal authority to use the scanners to located the Dilithium crystals, beam them aboard the Enterprise, and use eminent domain to decree they were Federation property, paying the miners the market price for Dilithium. If the scanners couldn't locate the Dilithium Kirk should have beamed the miners aboard, gone through the legal process of seizing the Dilitium crystals by eminent domain, and when the miners refused to hand over the crystals have charged them with treason against the Federation (threatening to let one of its major defense assets be destroyed) and reckless endangerment of human life (the crew) and thrown them into the brig for eventual trial, thus making them share the danger the Enterprise crew faced and making them need to reveal the location of the crystals in order to survive.

    Note that the only reason why the miners refused to hand over the Dilithium crystals was because the women refused to marry them until they got Harry Mudd freed. And the only reason why the women refused to marry them (which was pretty much their original goal) until they got Harry Mudd freed is because Mudd got them addicted to the Venus drug and he was their only supplier and it would be hard to arrange a new one stuck out in the boondocks on Rigel XII.

    Thus Kirk could have charged the women with the same crimes, treason against the Federation (threatening to let one of its major defense assets be destroyed) and reckless endangerment of human life (the crew), as he could have charged the miners, and added them to the charges against Mudd. I would have been quite content to have the episode end with all seven in the brig awaiting trial. Kirk could have consoled the women and the miners with the thought that they'd be the richest couples in the rehab facility.

    Jason 1 said:

    I'm not sure the women knew the ship was stolen or that there was any other crimes involved. But their use of the Venus drug to influence the miners later in the episode was fraud, and they conspired to block justice. Nobody knows precisely how the law treated Mudd after the episode:

    http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/41.htm

    This leaves it uncertain whether Mudd served his time and was released before starting to sell other people's patents or escaped before sentencing.

    Mytran said:

    Of course the "only charges" statement was before the troubles on Rigel XII. By the end of the episode Kirk could have (and in my opinion should have) arrested the women and the miners on various charges.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  4. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    If the Venus drug worked then it may have been a "fraud".
    However I think human trafficking would be illegal. So at most Mudd would have been hired to provide passage for 3 women. I'm sure their attractiveness was not a quantifiable part of the transaction. Even if it was those ladies were plenty attractive even in their non-made-up state.
    Maybe since Mudd used a stolen ship he did not fulfill his part of the transaction.
     
  5. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Ruth and Magda were both pretty funky-looking when not under the influence of the Venus drug. Eve, on the other hand, didn't look that bad at all when the drug wore off. Basically she looked a few years older and slightly disheveled.
     
  6. MAGolding

    MAGolding Commander Red Shirt

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    At the hearing Mudd's record goes:

    Mudd was never charged with stealing a space ship. He had purchased a space vessel fraudulently with counterfeit currency and been sentenced to and received psychiatric treatment. No doubt that space ship had been returned to its rightful owners and Mudd & Co. were traveling in a different space ship when rescued. There is no information about how Mudd acquired the use of the space ship they were traveling in and thus no evidence that Eve, Magda, and Ruth knew anything about the possibly illegal methods Harry used to acquire the use of the ship.
     
  7. MAGolding

    MAGolding Commander Red Shirt

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    The women certainly believed they had husbands waiting for them on Ophiuchus.

    But what they believed and the truth might have been two different things. I don't think that Mudd had ever arranged husbands for them on Ophiuchus. I believe that Mudd, using the name of Leo Walsh, actually had filed a flight plan to go to Ophiuchus from the planet they left from. But partway through the trip, Mudd changed course to dash toward his real destination, and turned off the identification beam,hoping they would be noticed. The Enterprise detected and chased them on that leg of the trip. If not for that Mudd would have left the women where he intended to and resumed course to Ophiuchus. Arriving there, for all I know he might have recruited some more naive women and taken them to his real destination.

    And at the real destination Eve, Magda, and Ruth might have ended up as pleasure women on Wriggley's Pleasure Planet, or Saturnius harem girls, or property of Orion slave traders. Or maybe Mudd would have taken them to a black castle on a dead world and sold them to some Star Trek equivalent of the Skal Thing in A.E. Van Vogt's Planets For Sale.

    There was a lot of manipulation from Mudd. Eve, Magda, and Ruth may have become addicted to the Venus Drug, or afraid to be seen without using it, and Mudd was their supplier. Mudd used his control over the Venus Drug supply to get them to insist that the miners withhold the Dilithium crystals until Mudd was freed, thus threatening the destruction of the Enteprise.
     
  8. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's possible that the real Leo Walsh came to a bad end due to Mudd's actions.
     
  9. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    Kirk had charges against Mudd:
    KIRK: Mister Mudd, you're charged with galaxy travel without a flight plan, without an identification beam, and failure to answer a starship's signal, thus effecting a menace to navigation.
    MUDD: What? My tiny ship in this immense galaxy a menace to navigation?
    KIRK: You're also charged with operation of a vessel without a master's license.

    Plus He gave a false name.

    In the end Kirk also gave into Childress's demands and drop charges against Mudd but he chose to delay because he didn't get the girl he wanted.
    I'd be putting Childress out of business if I were Starfleet. Perhaps allow other miners on the planet if the 3 idiots there were going to pull stunts like this. I might even put Childress on charges. Yeh I know the planet's isolated blah blah blah. But if Lithium was so important to Starfleet and they could only get idot miners then perhaps they needed to set themselves up there doing the mining themselves. I'm pretty sure the guys on the planet would not be allowed to have exclusive use of it if they chose on whim not to supply Federation vessels.
     
  10. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Rear Admiral Commodore

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    What I am curious about with the Lithium Chrystal blackmail though is it seems like Mudd doesn't have much leverage. If the miners don't give them the crystals then he dies with everyone else on the ship. Also if he is free then doesn't that mean he is stuck on that planet with the minors? Exactly how does he expect to get off and also nothing really stops Starfleet's ability to come back and arrest them at a later date and that includes him as well. Plus even he will run out the Venus Drug and have no way of getting more of it on that planet. Seems to me he should be trying to bargin for a shuttlecraft and maybe a headstart before the minors give up the Crystals and then he can make a deal with the minors or the woman where he will return with more Venus Drug.

    Jason
     
  11. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Methinks all this Mudd analysis is wandering rather OT. :)
     
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  12. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    I've always regarded Mudd's Women as say bottom 10 of TOS episodes but I'm thinking it got a general overall interesting plot with danger and drama. I'm not even against the mail-order bride thing as long as people are not being forced ito arranged marriages or its not a bunch of rich older men taking advantage of poor younger women with no choice.
    I think its the male crew members acting like witless fools when they see the women. Its not like they don't have very attractive women in their own crew. Its like this script was written for an all male crew who had been in space for years without seeing a woman.
    The one thing I would change about this episode would be at the end to have Spock and Rand sitting in the mess with Kirk as he was explaining the Venus drug was largely fake and wondering why the crew acted so crazy. Then I'd have Spock and Rand look at each other, roll their eyes and leave.
     
  13. Vger23

    Vger23 Commodore Commodore

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    It's probably in my bottom 3. It always boggles me that this script was being considered as one of the potential second pilot episodes. Yikes.
     
  14. Spock's Barber

    Spock's Barber Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, the network suits were also worried about the "hookers in space" premise. I agree.
     
  15. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Walrus Premium Member

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    Were they? Any proof of that? I thought it was a riff on Mail Order Brides.
     
  16. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Rear Admiral Commodore

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    I have no idea if it was the writers intention or not but one way I kind of look at the over-top male reaction to the woman is that since the woman on the ship are co-workers they are not likely going to date each other. I mean we do know that has happened but I think it's rare in Starfleet. That means these new non-starfleet woman might have been the first sexy woman they have seen in awhile because they have been out in space for awhile. Of course it would have made more sense if you had some gay woman also going gag gag over the women as well but you know they couldn't do that in the 60's.

    Jason
     
  17. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    Yeh maybe there was a brother-sister sort of relationship with the female members of the crew. But all sisters give their brothers heaps if they were caught drooling over a couple of girls on sight so I'd want to see that.

    There was a bit of romantic interaction on board at least early on in the series. Chapel with Spock. Kirk with Rand and Noel and Uhura (to some extent). There was an almost marriage.
     
  18. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Rear Admiral Commodore

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    Characters certainly had atttractions towards each other but other than the marriage you didn't see many long-term couples and even the woman who was going to get married ended up meeting some other guy I think the next week when they were down on the pleasure planet where everyones thoughts sort of came alive.

    Jason
     
  19. Spock's Barber

    Spock's Barber Commodore Commodore

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    Yes. Herb Solow's comments on the bottom of page 65/top of page 66 in Inside Star Trek.
     
  20. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Walrus Premium Member

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    I have to wonder if Herb's memories might be faulty, because the basic plot of the episode has been around for ages. Even calling the women "Space Hookers" seems a bit of a stretch. The idea was to marry off the women to rich settlers with Mudd taking home a hefty fee. I don't think he's pimping them out to a string of "customers".
    One of the faults of the episode is portraying the ship as being full of men who hadn't seen a women in ages. (Yeah Yeah I know Venus Drug) Which might play better in a WWII setting or a ship without a crew that included some very attractive women. Does Uhura even have a line in this episode? I think she and the other crewwomen disappear for most of this episode.