john titor
Captain
Seriously, what was the point of this? What were the writers trying to achieve? Its for this reason that I refuse to see any of the TNG movies as canon.
Picards family dying in Generations
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They are though, whether you like them or not. Facts are facts.
But I agree that this seemed pretty pointless. I mean, the poor guy had almost no family life - what was the point of taking away what little he did have?
If there is a point, I hope somebody will explain it to me. I do like Generations (a lot, actually), but I agree, John, that that seemed kind of pointless.
Stewart acted it beautifully, I must say.
But I agree that this seemed pretty pointless. I mean, the poor guy had almost no family life - what was the point of taking away what little he did have?
If there is a point, I hope somebody will explain it to me. I do like Generations (a lot, actually), but I agree, John, that that seemed kind of pointless.
Stewart acted it beautifully, I must say.
I think the purpose behind it was supposed to be with Picard having this tremendous loss and then later winding up in the Nexus, finding this new found sense of 'family' would be such a great temptation for him, that he might be compelled to not want to leave. Then through sheer will of character, he chooses to seeks out Guinan and plot to set things 'right'.
The problem is, that's not what made it to the finished product. Picard starts out mildy confussed, then quickly is comfortable, then just as quickly is able to walk away from it all to seek out Guinan. By doing it that way, it defeated the entire purpose behind killing off Robert and Rene. But hey, we're talking about a movie with plot holes big enough to fly a Galaxy Class through.
Personally, I just look at it as a bad dream that never really happened. There, that was easy.
The problem is, that's not what made it to the finished product. Picard starts out mildy confussed, then quickly is comfortable, then just as quickly is able to walk away from it all to seek out Guinan. By doing it that way, it defeated the entire purpose behind killing off Robert and Rene. But hey, we're talking about a movie with plot holes big enough to fly a Galaxy Class through.
Personally, I just look at it as a bad dream that never really happened. There, that was easy.
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In my sad fanboy way, I was just pissed off that the pictures Picard was blubbing over looked nothing like Robert and Rene as they'd appeared in the series.
john titor
Captain
No, this is fiction, as such if the writers said that Threshold can be regarded as non canon, then I refuse to acknowledge generations as canon. TNG ended with AGT, that was the capstone on a 7 year story arc about picard, the universe and everything. There was no more to be said after it, the franchise reached the core of its being with the ontological themes of the episode. Hence everything after that is the product of the corporate hollywood machine, its not star trek, its star trek being pupeteered by execs and bad writers/directors. Simple as. Or I can just regard it as a dream which it is, Picard had a nightmare and woke up.
Similarly First Contact didn't happen. The borg never had a queen, the queen idea just ruined it. Voy never happened either and I'm ok with that because it was a crap series. The only star trek which is real is TOS, TNG and DS9 as a spinoff in some other direction.
john titor
Captain
EXACTLY! In fact maybe it wasn't Robert and Renee! Maybe Picard was in the nexus and it was preventing him from leaving by fooling him. Or maybe it was just the wrong info sent up to him. Can happen.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
There was supposed to be a connection with Kirk and Picard about being career men who never had families.
The loss meant so much to Picard that going back in time via the Nexus to save them never occured to him.
The loss of David Marcus meant so much to Kirk that he chose to fantasize about some chick we never heard of before and horses, instead.
So did Picard's brother's wife live or what?
The loss meant so much to Picard that going back in time via the Nexus to save them never occured to him.
The loss of David Marcus meant so much to Kirk that he chose to fantasize about some chick we never heard of before and horses, instead.
So did Picard's brother's wife live or what?
I don't know if there's a point, but it works to emphasize the "generations" theme of the movie.
Generations of Enterprise (sailing ship and -B and -D)
Generations of Sulu (Hikaru and Demora)
Generations of Picard (past, present...and no future Picards)
Generations of Starfleet (Kirk and Harriman and Picard)
and so on.
If nothing else, the theme of the movie is prevalent everywhere.
Notions of continuity, past...present...future...in many ways, many examples.
Generations of Enterprise (sailing ship and -B and -D)
Generations of Sulu (Hikaru and Demora)
Generations of Picard (past, present...and no future Picards)
Generations of Starfleet (Kirk and Harriman and Picard)
and so on.
If nothing else, the theme of the movie is prevalent everywhere.
Notions of continuity, past...present...future...in many ways, many examples.
Contrary to your signature line, I'm afraid that you'll find very few people to support your belief. But you're more than welcome to continue feeling that way if it makes you feel better.
OTOH, perhaps you can consider that Star Trek '09 granted your wish. Now, TNG, the movies, DS9 and Voyager simply never happened. There you go; now you can party like it's 1969.
john titor
Captain
Nu Trek is in an alternate universe where cadets get promoted to captains in less than 2 hours, so TNG et al still happened. And my sig is a statement of fact so it matters not whether people agree with me, I know I'm always right.
I thought it was to give him temptation to stay in the Nexus??
does he stay and have a family or does he get out and help save those Soran is trying to destroy?
(Just my 1¢ for what its worth, and that isn't much around here,
)
A
Amaris
Guest
I hated that whole plot point. In fact, I don't like the events in Generations at all, really.
*) Picard's brother and nephew die in a fire.
*) Data and the emotion chip.
*) The Enterprise D is destroyed. By an old Klingon rust bucket, no less.
*) Scotty using a shitload of technobabble.
*) Captain Kirk dying by falling with a bridge after coming out of a nexus to attack an old scientist Wha?
Visually, however, Generations was unmatched, in my opinion. Beautiful, beautiful colors, effective lighting and sweeping panoramics. It's just the content left much to be desired.
*) Picard's brother and nephew die in a fire.
*) Data and the emotion chip.
*) The Enterprise D is destroyed. By an old Klingon rust bucket, no less.
*) Scotty using a shitload of technobabble.
*) Captain Kirk dying by falling with a bridge after coming out of a nexus to attack an old scientist Wha?
Visually, however, Generations was unmatched, in my opinion. Beautiful, beautiful colors, effective lighting and sweeping panoramics. It's just the content left much to be desired.
Dukhat, I hear you, but I find my self agreeing with Axiom and Justkate and Andrew.
This is entertainment, and whatever canon may be, "personal canon" will also be.
Lastly, I doubt you or anyone sees the entire Trek franchise just as canon presents it - or if it's even possible to.
This is entertainment, and whatever canon may be, "personal canon" will also be.
Lastly, I doubt you or anyone sees the entire Trek franchise just as canon presents it - or if it's even possible to.
I pretty much agree with all of the above... and that goes double for Nemesis.
But bad trek is better than no trek. well, not really. but sometimes it can be enjoyed.
He did. There is something really beautiful about that whole scene: the emotion, the lighting, the sets. It's really excellent. Except ....
Me, too.Yes, visually I think it's stunning, and quite haunting in its way.
I didn't like generations at all other then the visuals -- if it was a show it would be the worst one.
They blow up the enterprise - They could of had a good fight with a bunch of klingons? but that was done in yesterday enterprise-- been better to see a romulan warbird go head to head in the movie.
Data's chip was lame--
The scene with the enterpise B was pretty cool.
But killing kirk was stupid- they had a way to bring kirk back-- at the end afte taking out the bad guy-- kirk retires in the 24th century?
But for picard's family dying-- they made him into a big cry baby... Great
This was a good looking movie but a crappy story line..
They blow up the enterprise - They could of had a good fight with a bunch of klingons? but that was done in yesterday enterprise-- been better to see a romulan warbird go head to head in the movie.
Data's chip was lame--
The scene with the enterpise B was pretty cool.
But killing kirk was stupid- they had a way to bring kirk back-- at the end afte taking out the bad guy-- kirk retires in the 24th century?
But for picard's family dying-- they made him into a big cry baby... Great
This was a good looking movie but a crappy story line..
How to win friends and influence people...
As for "all the Trek I love is the best and was created for noble reasons, while all the stuff I hate was just a combination of those scummy capitalist execs and bad writers wanting to milk the series"... I can't even be bothered to point out what's wrong with such a viewpoint. It makes you look laughable, which I hope was your point.
Weren't you the fool making all the "Is XX character gay?" threads not so long ago?
Of course, part of me is desperately hoping you're taking these extreme intelligent-deficient POVs in order to get people riled up, and it's all a clever ironic approach you're going for.
Nobody could be like this for real, right?
Right...?
As for the subject at hand, I think they included their deaths not just to show the temptation of the Nexus, but also for the contrasting characterisations of Picard and Soran ("Time is the fire in which we burn...") and also so Picard's heart-warming "time is a companion" speech at the end has more resonance.
I wish they hadn't done it, but it doesn't "RUIN TREKZ FOREVA!!!!" for me either.
I haven't seen this film in years. My biggest issue with it was how casually the Ent-D was "killed off" and replaced for "First Contact". It's the Enterprise for goodness sake - you give it an heroic send-off. See "Star Trek III"? GOOD heroic sacrifice of the ship., See "Gen"? LAME send-off...
and did Geordi ever discover that it was all down to him? Probably would've made him feel a little guilty...
I don't like any of the TNG movies. I do like the series very much, but TNG the series just did not translate well into film. Probably because TNG was much more of an ensamble cast, while TOS was primarily Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
The only good thing about Generations was that Data said "Shit." That's it. Everything else was lame. Nichelle Nichols and Whoopi Goldberg wanted to be in a scene together that everyone wanted but did not get. Of course, Kirk dying at the end of that silly feature to such a lame-o enemy just made everyone in Trekdom cringe.
I still like the idea of Captain Kirk being transwarped in the Nexus back to 21st Century Earth as Denny Crane, banging broads and being powerful and unethical. Alan Shore is along as a Time Traveller who was also caught up in the energy ribbon, who also likes 21st Century Earth. The Shore character really has an enhanced IQ of 1200 and learned American legal law and passed the bar within a week.
The only good thing about Generations was that Data said "Shit." That's it. Everything else was lame. Nichelle Nichols and Whoopi Goldberg wanted to be in a scene together that everyone wanted but did not get. Of course, Kirk dying at the end of that silly feature to such a lame-o enemy just made everyone in Trekdom cringe.
I still like the idea of Captain Kirk being transwarped in the Nexus back to 21st Century Earth as Denny Crane, banging broads and being powerful and unethical. Alan Shore is along as a Time Traveller who was also caught up in the energy ribbon, who also likes 21st Century Earth. The Shore character really has an enhanced IQ of 1200 and learned American legal law and passed the bar within a week.
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