Picard's creepy imaginary family

[Trekker09]

I agree the children were unbelievable caricatures, too formal and sweet, but the Victorian Christmas scene as Tradition-on-steroids made sense with Picard remembering Robert as basically living in the past (TNG “Family”). Mostly Picard wanted Rene to still be alive, poor kid. That did seem like overkill by the writers, not necessary to the plot.
Kirk’s campfire scene and riding horses with Spock in The Final Frontier pretty much explains the two fantasies he has in the Nexus.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

At least in the Picard show, they gave Stewart a flat cap and grey flannel shorts, just like all 24th century French men from Yorkshire.

As a Yorkshireman, this receives my 'post of the day' award.

 

[PCz911]

Yup, Kirk’s fantasy didn’t quite ring true, either. He never ever struck me as a horse and scrambled egg loving kind of country guy (Pike, on the other hand, yes—in fact Kirk’s fantasy seemed almost like a recreation of Pike’s ideal life in “The Cage”). So much about Generations felt inorganic—indeed, the entire film was based on studio mandates and the plot and characterisation felt manufactured to conform to those mandates. In some ways it’s a bit of a Frankenstein film, cooked up in a laboratory and not quite a living, breathing, organic entity. Maybe that’s why I felt so unmoved by it all.

Is there anywhere that the studio mandates are articulated? I’d be curious to see them… as I totally agree with you that this movie misses the mark

 

[David cgc]

Is there anywhere that the studio mandates are articulated? I’d be curious to see them… as I totally agree with you that this movie misses the mark

IIRC, Braga and Moore go into it a bit on their writer's commentary for the movie. Moore, especially, has always been very frank about when he's felt his work hasn't been up to snuff, and tried to articulate the internal and external reasons why that happened.

 

[shapeshifter]

The family was fake. Kirk says about the nexus that nothing in there is real. The Nexus makes mincemeat of damaged minds like Soran, but for people practiced at spotting fakes, like Kirk, Picard and Guinan, it was fairly easy to see through the facade.

The contrived part was making Kirk not know how long he had been in there, think he just got there the moment Picard shows up. Without that contrivance he would have figured it out and left sooner.

A good film all the way up to then though. Then, dare I say it... it falls off a cliff.

ETA: IMO

 

[Tosk]

The contrived part was making Kirk not know how long he had been in there, think he just got there the moment Picard shows up.

Maybe he did just get there. If you can time travel leaving the Nexus, who's to say how that works entering it?

 

[Jedman67]

It was the fake family from Voyagers EMH

 

[Kor]

Maybe he did just get there. If you can time travel leaving the Nexus, who's to say how that works entering it?

Yes, "time has no meaning there" as Soran said. It doesn't matter how much time had passed in the outside universe from one person entering the Nexus until someone else entered it. Everything is a temporal mishmash inside the Nexus. For that matter, Picard probably could have shown up in the woods "before" Kirk first appeared there, and waited around to greet him when he arrived.

Kor

 

[Ottens]

The family was fake. Kirk says about the nexus that nothing in there is real. The Nexus makes mincemeat of damaged minds like Soran, but for people practiced at spotting fakes, like Kirk, Picard and Guinan, it was fairly easy to see through the facade.

I'm not sure I agree completely. Of course the Nexus isn't real - but I thought from the way Guinan described it to Picard earlier it it supposed to feel real. I think the movie was trying to tell us the reason Picard and Kirk weren't seduced by it is that they are Starfleet officers who put duty first.

 

[XCV330]

I'm not sure I agree completely. Of course the Nexus isn't real - but I thought from the way Guinan described it to Picard earlier it it supposed to feel real. I think the movie was trying to tell us the reason Picard and Kirk weren't seduced by it is that they are Starfleet officers who put duty first.

maybe it affected El Aurians differently then humans.

 

[jackoverfull]

And one of them got a 20th century fighter jet for xmas

yeah, who would ever gift something like a 15th century galleon to a child?

The sequence is a head scratcher for sure, mainly for me because it seems to be set in the, what, 19th century?

Made sense in the context of the movie: even before Robert’s death Picard is shown longing for the old good days of sailing ships and no electricity.

Same with Kirk - wouldn’t he rather imagine being young and back on the Enterprise, instead of getting back to 1 random old flame?

again, makes sense in the context of the movie, with Kirk shown as a has-been and seeing sulu still managed to build a family.

About Picard, he is shown as not liking children in early TNG, but he mellowed considerably during the years. Becoming a child again surely helped (as did adopting one for a while…or having two as kamin…and I could go on).

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Well, Patrick Stewart is British, so unimaginative Americans at the time went for a Dickensian flavour in his fantasies.

Well, considering the British director, David Carson, went so far as to cast his real-life wife Kim Braden in the role of Picard's Nexus fantasy wife*, I would imagine he had a lot of creative control on how to handle that scene and could have pulled it back if he thought it was too stereotypically and weirdly Dickensian (which it was), and chose not to do so.

* Adding to the weirdness of the Dickensian Village of the Damned children, is that, out-universe reuse of recurring actors aside, it looks like Picard was fantasizing about Ensign Brooks, and the fact that she has very Beverly Crusher-like qualities.

"Papa, thank you for the dolly. I shall adorn her in the finery of my enemies and stab her repeatedly."

 

[dupersuper]

Kirk’s campfire scene and riding horses with Spock in The Final Frontier pretty much explains the two fantasies he has in the Nexus.

I mean, he grew up on a farm in Iowa. That's good enough for me.

 

[suarezguy]

Well, considering the British director, David Carson, went so far as to cast his real-life wife Kim Braden in the role of Picard's Nexus fantasy wife*, I would imagine he had a lot of creative control on how to handle that scene and could have pulled it back if he thought it was too stereotypically and weirdly Dickensian (which it was), and chose not to do so.

* Adding to the weirdness of the Dickensian Village of the Damned children, is that, out-universe reuse of recurring actors aside, it looks like Picard was fantasizing about Ensign Brooks, and the fact that she has very Beverly Crusher-like qualities.

From her appearance, her being Picard's fantasy wife, I thought someone was trying to flatter Jeri Taylor.

 

[Kor]

I mean, he grew up on a farm in Iowa. That's good enough for me.

I picture 'farm life' and 'ranch life' as being much different things though. Modern farming doesn't make much use of horses, and, conversely, livestock ranches that use horseback riders to herd the animals, or dude ranches solely dedicated to horses, don't have much farming of crops going on. Not to say there isn't any crossover at all... these are just observations from my (admittedly limited) time in such areas.

Kor

 

[Damian]

It was the fake family from Voyagers EMH

I have a hard time watching that episode. I have a daughter and she reminds me a bit of the Doctor's 'daughter' and it's just hard for me to watch that sequence when she dies from her injuries.

As an aside I thought that was a great growing episode for both the Doctor and even Paris who actually gives the Doctor good advice. Paris is sometimes a bit immature but he also had some wisdom.

Well, anyway, this is a movie board, not the Voyager board so I'll leave it at that

 

[Jedman67]

I have a hard time watching that episode. I have a daughter and she reminds me a bit of the Doctor's 'daughter' and it's just hard for me to watch that sequence when she dies from her injuries.

As an aside I thought that was a great growing episode for both the Doctor and even Paris who actually gives the Doctor good advice. Paris is sometimes a bit immature but he also had some wisdom.

Well, anyway, this is a movie board, not the Voyager board so I'll leave it at that

I honestly thought that bit was a little heavy handed. But yeah, it was good character for the Doc

 

[dupersuper]

I honestly thought that bit was a little heavy handed. But yeah, it was good character for the Doc

Meh. As these were standard video game NPC level holodeck characters and not living sapient AI, I just remember this episode as the one in which The Doctor gets overly attached to a fictional character, much like the Beowolf episode.

 

[Damian]

Meh. As these were standard video game NPC level holodeck characters and not living sapient AI, I just remember this episode as the one in which The Doctor gets overly attached to a fictional character, much like the Beowolf episode.

Well, people sometimes cry at sad movies. I think it would probably have a bit more impact if you are 'acting' within the story and not just observing it. I think the difference from 'real life' that comes into play is you're probably not going to be profoundly sad for weeks on end like you would if it really were your child that died. It hits you in the moment, but you move on pretty quickly.

Though in this case I think it was an important growing moment for the Doctor. Nothing is worse than having your child die in front of you. Sure it was fictional but it taught him a valuable lesson in his interactions with people. That's one reason I do like this episode quite a bit (and like I said, Paris has a good moment as well when he tells the Doctor he basically needs to see it through).