Picard's comments about Earth's Past - "Encounter at Farpoint"

[Joel_Kirk]

There's a difference between having a few choice possessions and being obsessed with having lots of things.

Anywho, Picard's attitude may be a bit snobbish but it is realistic. I mean, if a guy today ran into a French Aristocrat do you really think he'd be totally okay with them? He'd probably think "Whoa, those frogs sure dressed weird and acted weird. Glad we're not like that."

Modern people will always see themselves as superior to their predecessors. Trek was fairly realistic in having the 24th Century people not be worshipful of 20th Century people.

Well, Janeway did admire Amelia Earhart (her hero from the 20th Century). However, the TNG people didn't seem much impressed with Scotty (a man known for his exploits with Kirk in the 23rd century). On the other hand, Jadzia was overjoyed to see Kirk, Spock, and Koloth when she went back in time to the 23rd century. And, Sisko took time out to meet Kirk personally in his own way before he left said mission in the 23rd century.

 

[T'Girl]

Modern people will always see themselves as superior to their predecessors.

I don't think that's true in the least. When Americans talk about "the greatest generation," we're definitely not talking about the current one.

Most people (if they stop and think about it) recognize that our ancestors are the ones who created the building blocks of our modern day culture and society. We all owe them a tremendous debt that can never be expressed to them.

if a guy today ran into a French Aristocrat do you really think he'd be totally okay with them? He'd probably think "Whoa, those frogs sure dressed weird and acted weird. Glad we're not like that."

Certainly the historical female aristocrats dressed beautifully, and a well dressed man is always attractive.

The French nobility (iirc) still exists today, but with no political power.

Trek was fairly realistic in having the 24th Century people not be worshipful of 20th Century people.

However, Picard openly worshiped that 21st century Cochrane.

 

[Nightdiamond]

But what about Riker making the comment about the 21st century humans that there was 'not much to redeem them', right after they bought them aboard?

Data simply says they were the most unusual humans he ever saw--but at that point all they saw was a confused woman, a country bunkin and a business man.

It seemed a lot like exaggeration and being overly judgmental.

Does it clash with the idea that 24th century humans are more ethical, moral and accepting, and yet make quick value judgments against people within minutes--

Would they ever say that about Klingons or Romulans?

 

[Robert Comsol]

Most people (if they stop and think about it) recognize that our ancestors are the ones who created the building blocks of our modern day culture and society. We all owe them a tremendous debt that can never be expressed to them.

Thanks for mentioning that!

Trek was fairly realistic in having the 24th Century people not be worshipful of 20th Century people.

However, Picard openly worshiped that 21st century Cochrane.

But I think rather for his historical achievements than his style and manners.

Bob

 

[USS KG5]

Does it clash with the idea that 24th century humans are more ethical, moral and accepting, and yet make quick value judgments against people within minutes--

Yes I've always found that rather funny.

 

[Robert Comsol]

But what kind of people are we talking about? We are talking about people from ancient times displaced into the future and how to treat and handle them appropriately.

Apparently there is no course at the Starfleet Academy "How to deal with humans from ancient times if you ever should encounter these".

Naturally there is an element of uncertainty and insecurity for both parties involved which somewhat inevitably leads to such tensions as we have seen in "Relics" and other episodes. It's rather natural, IMHO.

Bob

 

[Mytran]

Apparently there is no course at the Starfleet Academy "How to deal with humans from ancient times if you ever should encounter these".

And why not, that's what I want to know? It seems to happen all the time!

 

[BillJ]

Apparently there is no course at the Starfleet Academy "How to deal with humans from ancient times if you ever should encounter these".

And why not, that's what I want to know? It seems to happen all the time!

I'm sure they do have courses on dealing with primitive people and cultures. Humans from the past should be handled based on those guidelines.

 

[T'Girl]

So, Picard and Riker both skipped out on the course when they were (separately) at the Academy?

Unless the course consisted of "anyone not like you is to be treated like shit."

 

[Anwar]

Then again, after what happened with Khan they might've decided that being too nice wasn't always the right path...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Reasoning that anyone from the 20th century is going to act like Khan, does not seem to make a ton of sense.

 

[Anwar]

^ Reasoning that anyone from the 20th century is going to act like Khan, does not seem to make a ton of sense.

Making sure they were being watched and giving them the wary eye and not being awestruck by them, however, is quite sensible.

 

[T'Girl]

^ Reasoning that anyone from the 20th century is going to act like Khan, does not seem to make a ton of sense.

Making sure they were being watched and giving them the wary eye ...

Except they weren't. They were ditched in a lounge and largely left to their own devices in a environment they didn't understand, the door wasn't secured and they had the run of the ship.

... and not being awestruck by them ...

I don't think anyone is actually suggesting that.

For people on a voyage of discovery, the Enterprise crew are astonishingly uninterested in these people. It's opportunity to interact with people from centuries past, and they're just left in a lounge. If not the top command officers, then surely the ship carries historians, personnel specializing in sociology.

Maybe they'd like to ask Clare what is meant by the term "homemaker," obviously none of them have ever head the term before.

 

[DWF]

^ Reasoning that anyone from the 20th century is going to act like Khan, does not seem to make a ton of sense.

Making sure they were being watched and giving them the wary eye and not being awestruck by them, however, is quite sensible.

Compared to a new threat capable of scooping out whole colonies from planets and the return of the Romulans who may or may have responsible for the attacks? Taking a look a the broader picture Picard had to worry about the ship, the crew and the mission. But the others weren't forgetten about.

 

[Anwar]

Exactly, Picard was under a lot of stress. That, and the businessman guy was being obnoxious.

 

[T'Girl]

No, initially Offenhouse was very polite, asking reasonable questions in soft tones, it was only after he figured out that he was being given the run around (and he was) that he started pushing. Picard was obnoxious toward the three even before they woke up.

 

[Anwar]

Which, again, made sense given the greater situation. Picard had to deal with a potential Romulan invasion. In that scenario, a guy can be expected to be a little stressed out.

And like I said, if a guy from right now ran into someone from the 16th century or something odds are the Modern Day people would think themselves superior to their predecessors. That's how most people are.

 

[T'Girl]

Picard had to deal with a potential Romulan invasion.

Then Picard should have stood by his original order, assign an officer to them (not the first officer) to look after them, like a sponsor.

If he can isolate command functions, he can certainly lock someone out of the comm system. Better still have the assigned officer do it.

Given how busy Picard was, why did he (after the comm incident) leave the bridge, travel to the lounge, and have a conversation with Offenhouse at all? Simply for the personal satisfaction to bossing around the primitives?

Also there's this ...

RIKER: Take this very slowly until we've all adjusted, and then we'll talk to the Captain.
PICARD: Did you give him permission to contact me?
RIKER: Of course not.

Riker did suggest that they would be allowed to speak to the ship's captain at some point.

And like I said, if a guy from right now ran into someone from the 16th century or something odds are the Modern Day people would think themselves superior to their predecessors.

And like I said, I think the majority of people would be interested by the chance to meet and interact with such a person. Pick their brains, show them around.

The only type of person who would feel "superior" to a person from centuries past, would likely be the same person who daily feels superior to his modern day contemporaries.

That's how most people are.

No, perhaps this is how a few people are, but nowhere close to "most."

Most people, most of the time, are pretty nice people.

 

[BillJ]

Most people, most of the time, are pretty nice people.

What planet do you live on? Because it sure in the hell ain't Earth!

 

[Nerys Myk]

So, Picard and Riker both skipped out on the course when they were (separately) at the Academy?

Unless the course consisted of "anyone not like you is to be treated like shit."

It's an elective.