Picard vs Khan??

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Khan 2.0, Jun 27, 2019.

  1. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Location:
    earth...but when?...spock?
    https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Z4gAAOSwPEZc6rQh/s-l1600.jpg
    ('unfilmed battle?' there wasnt seriously a Picard v Khan script was there?)

    Edit: just checked a previous thread from years ago:
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  2. LAFR

    LAFR Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2001
    Location:
    Erin, Ontario, Canada
    Khan would have cut Picard into little bits and used him as bait.
     
    Jadeb, Galileo7, Ar-Pharazon and 6 others like this.
  3. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    New England
    [​IMG]
     
    Galileo7 likes this.
  4. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Location:
    South Pennsyltucky
    I used to have that magazine. If I remember the article correctly, it wasn't really Khan in the story, just a holodeck simulation of Khan.
     
  5. XCV330

    XCV330 A Being of Pure Caffeine Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Location:
    jippers on a beach somewhere
    would have rather seen Bashir vs Khan.. augment against augment
     
  6. ChristopherPike

    ChristopherPike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    To troll fans, it would've been called "The Wraith of Khan".
     
  7. Sir Rhosis

    Sir Rhosis Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2001
    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
  8. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    It’s a good thing ratings boosters were generally frowned upon on TNG.
     
    Lance likes this.
  9. Maurice

    Maurice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    One ferry ride from Starfleet HQ
    Please. Khan was a lame-o threat in both of his appearances. He only got as far as he did because Kirk acted like an idiot in both instances.
     
  10. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Yes, and it’s unfortunate that his exposure via TWOK has made him into some kind of a Moriarty in the public consciousness (who in turn was a big deal in exactly one original Holmes story).
     
    Allyn Gibson likes this.
  11. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Location:
    The Enterprise's Restroom
    Lord Garth and Khan 2.0 like this.
  12. Sir Rhosis

    Sir Rhosis Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2001
    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    My take (I read Bernardin's article back in the 90s as well) was that Jeri Taylor was just being kind when she told him something like, "We'd love to do the script, but Montalban has vowed never to play Khan again."

    Sir Rhosis
     
    Allyn Gibson likes this.
  13. XCV330

    XCV330 A Being of Pure Caffeine Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Location:
    jippers on a beach somewhere
    He and his crew figured out how to fly a warp capable ship of the line in an alarmingly fast amount of time. They didn't get much chance to show their enhanced capabilities admittedly, but there was that.

    It would be the equivalent of Captain Bligh taking command of a Zumwalt cruiser today after looking over the controls a bit.
     
    Lance likes this.
  14. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    No, Khan asked for technical manuals and Kirk allowed him to read them. Khan would’ve formed a plan and researched those aspects that could help him execute it (such as environmental controls). Oh, and computer security apparently wasn’t a thing either.
     
    Lance likes this.
  15. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    My mansion on Qo'noS
    Picard would have surrendered like he did in "Encounter at Farpoint."

    Kor
     
    Neumann and Lance like this.
  16. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Ideally, what should’ve happened is that the Botany Bay would’ve been kept as undisturbed as possible and hopefully picked up by a dedicated science vessel, which would’ve studied its cargo and crew before perhaps reviving them in a secured environment which seemed to fit their time period, followed by detailed interviews. As soon as their past became clear, Khan and his followers would’ve been transferred to a modern penal colony. The End.
     
  17. XCV330

    XCV330 A Being of Pure Caffeine Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Location:
    jippers on a beach somewhere
    Take storytelling for what its worth and realize a lot of it is in the context. That stuff is for kings, I'm told.

    If I hand thawed out frozen Bligh whatever the "chilton's" manual is to a Space Shuttle and he figures out what he needs to know to steal it and fly the hell out of there, that's impressive. Whether he had the manual or not.

    As far as computer security, we were still deep in the "computers go beep boop beep when you type on them" era of movie making. but once in awhile films affected reality. War dialing might have in part come about from the idea in Wargames, and remote console hacking was pretty much demo'd in TWOK, even if Reliant had the world's worst passwor.

    Audiences of the time would not have accepted 10 minutes of Spock giving Saavik a never ending encrypted sequence. The scene works for me because me the viewer chooses not to give a damn what the code really was. It was a code, Spock had it, and Khan for all his brilliance, was too farsighted intellect to change his damn root password when he took over the ship. Its one of my favorite scenes in Trek.

    I like to think Khan was so firmly rooted in 90's era internet security paranoia that he could have never believed Starfleet was so lax to have a database of console passowords to every ship in the line on board every ship of the line (or maybe Enterprise had it because Kirk being aboard made it a flagship for the moment.. that works for me) .

    "Our shields are dropping."

    "Raise them"

    "I can't"

    "Holy shit.. this thing has a root password you can access our consoles remotely by? And that's a thing, Everyone just does that? Seriously if I had known that I would have just done that to Enterprise instead. It's a way better ship and we'd have two, one for you one for me Joichim, AND genesis. Now where's the override. Where is the override! (blap blap blap blap.. explosions)."
     
  18. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    During TOS, after gaining control it was obvious that they needed the crews help to run the ship. Khan's plan might not have extended pass the initial seizure of the ship. He couldn't/didn't expect to be able to run the ship with just 73 people.

    During TWOK they had that help via the brain-worms.
     
  19. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Location:
    The clinic located by the Q Continuum
    It's the perfect example of an actor elevating something on paper that's sub-par. A not bad idea that needed another rough draft to iron out issues and/or ranged character actor to make what's on paper shine. With Montalban they scores. With most actors of the era, "Space Seed" would not be remembered as much, nor picked up on for a film years later...

    It was Montalban's acting that took a semi-generic heavy given a free ride by Kirk (twice) into something far more memorable. Granted, some dialogue about Khan's origins and how "We will do well in your century" are compelling on paper as a sci-fi idea being executed (and Ricardo clearly understood the material, a less-attentive actor would just say "we" with incorrect or without any emphasis), but Ricardo could give even the most banal piece of dialogue some mannerisms and charisma to embrace and behold. He was a first rate actor, making a good character great and ripe for reuse thanks to Nicholas Mayer sitting through all 79 episodes to get a feel for Trek as well as brainstorming an idea for II.

    Otherwise, yeah, the old trope of "Let's let the villain win by uncharacteristically dumbing down the hero", aka "Weslification"(tm), was on display. Unlike Wesley Crusher's instances where the adults are dumbed down, Ricardo and Shatner and crew are on the top of their game and it shows, literally. That and there'd be no story to build up if Kirk gave Khan merely the 23rd century equivalents of "Readers' Digest" and "Federation News and Worlds Report" magazines... Yawnaroonie. :D Now if Khan figured out how to hack a system, that would be stupid because none of us would have a clue if teleported 300 years into the future. However, and conceptually, Khan still could use his charisma - which he had, starting with McGivers (A surname with a cheap in-joke if there ever was one, why not go the extra light year and script it as "McReadilyGivesIns" instead? On wait, this is 1966 and not 2016 where sledgehammers need not be subtle anymore, which The Simpsons predicted in 1993 via a Halloween episode joke), but he easily could have won over others in the 23rd century to build an army from within. That would have been even more compelling than the few lines of dialogue Khan was given. Especially with Ricardo's sublime delivery. Ricardo made him iconic, there's no way that's going to be topped. If there is, let me know the store as I want to go to aisle seven and purchase 100 bottled containing lightning that was free range captured. :D But I digress, the story opted to use what amounts to sexism as she's taken in by his sugar the same way I don't fall in lust with a computer built in 1968, when there were more compelling ways -- only this time it's not a bunch of spores in paradise but psychological influence. "Space Seed" is good but it could have been "great". Even as part of a fortified breakfast too with the orange juice and bacon and eggs and toast... Mmmm, "Khan Flakes"... sorry for the corny joke, I did have to milk it...
     
  20. Maurice

    Maurice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    One ferry ride from Starfleet HQ
    I honestly think "Space Seed" and Khan's rep got retroactively inflated by TWOK. It was never an episode that I ever heard much love for prior to the movie.

    Meyer didn't sit through the 79 episodes, Bennett did. Meyer came on late and did a crash rewrite, but Khan being the heavy came before him.
     
    Lance likes this.