PIC S3 Ships & Tech

[Mark_Nguyen]

The writer's technical manual for Voyager non-canonically established that Voyager was the second of four Intrepids built to date (it also says that she would weigh in at 1.5 million metric tons, but that was revised downward to some 700,000 mt, per in-show dialogue). We only saw the Bellerophon on DS9, and there was a loose implication that Geordi was competing with his counterpart on the USS Intrepid (albeit without definitively saying WHICH USS Intrepid) on warp engine efficiency in TNG S7, while Voyager was actively in pre-production. There was never word on how many were SUPPOSED to be built, only that Voyager was shiny new when Janeway took her into the Badlands.

While I'd be okay with the Intrepid being a limited, smaller, but "quick and smart" counterpart to the Galaxy that never saw widespread production, it still sits strange that they would retire them all before their hulls wore out and threw the Intrepid's name back on the "can use" list. But let's say that they "only" made six, but then decided that they wanted to concentrate on bigger ships like the Ross and Odyssey classes to swell the ranks along with a swath of 500-600m size ships with the same bridge and nacelle designs. This doesn't make the Intrepid class a failure (any more than the Galaxy, and we don't see any of THOSE around in PIC either), but just a victim of the times.

Obviously, we can't discount the likely, production-based reason to NOT to show off any Galaxies or Voyager in S3 of Picard, to give the actual appearances of the E-D and Voyager additional value. The same can't be said of the wee little Defiant, which we see in the museum AND in the Fleet Formation, though it was barely lip service provided and we arguably saw more individual Defiant-class ships than Galaxy or Intrepid in the TNG production era...

Mark

 

[Ithekro]

While USS Voyager proved the Intrepid-class could do long term missions, the class design is unnecessary complex with the moving warp pylons and their first generation bio gel pack computer system. Means they might retire them sooner than later just to allow personal to be able to move from ship to ship without having too many non-standard systems on the not as easy to replace the systems Intrepids.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

I can get behind that. We don't see variable geometry warp nacelles again until Discovery reaches the 32nd century - even the Wells-class timeship, which must be warp-capable, barely has identifiable nacelles at all. As it stands, whether or not the Intrepid class was designed to flap her nacelles for better high-speed warp efficiency or to avoid damage to subspace, neither seems to have stuck around. The Titan / Enterprise-G could warp to a higher cruising speed (9.99 vs. Voyager's 9.975) and she's got big ol' immovable nacelles.

I recently watched a video on the Freedom-class litoral combat ships for the US Navy. Notably, the Freedom-class is a fundamentally flawed design that is not worth maintaining, and they're retiring nine completed ships, one of which is a mere two years old. And yet, they're building six MORE of the same class, with the issues fixed, removed, or at least band-aided to be worth building them. While I don't see the Intrepid as a boondoggle in any sense, it would be reasonable to remove the completed ships from service so people wouldn't need specialized knowledge to maintain them, when newer ships would do the same job better and without needing to "special case" the class.

The same video also brings up the Zumwalt-class destroyers, production of which has been stopped as the Zumwalts basically tried too many new things too quickly, and it simply made more sense to make more incrementally-upgraded Arleigh Burke class destroyers than sink billions more into fixing all the problems with the Zumwalts.

Mark

 

[Markonian]

Wow, I thought it was brand new news from this year that Zumwalt didn't cut it. The Wikipedia page has the project cancelled in 2008? I hadn't even heard of the Zumwalt until 2020 or so!

 

[fireproof78]

Wow, I thought it was brand new news from this year that Zumwalt didn't cut it. The Wikipedia page has the project cancelled in 2008? I hadn't even heard of the Zumwalt until 2020 or so!

I remember studying the Zumwalt in undergrad as part of technology class and understanding stealth tech.

 

[Markonian]

I remember studying the Zumwalt in undergrad as part of technology class and understanding stealth tech.

Wasn't it meant to be secret?
I guess Sera messed up my timeline and caused the Zumwalt to happen earlier.

 

[fireproof78]

Wasn't it meant to be secret?
I guess Sera messed up my timeline and caused the Zumwalt to happen earlier.

Now it's been 20 years, but my grandfather loved military tech so I might have learned it from him in terms of upcoming developments, i.e. concepts of this new ship, and perhaps not the Zumwalt specifically.

 

[Ithekro]

Wasn't USS Zumwalt commanded by Captain James Kirk?

 

[Enterprise1701]

Wasn't USS Zumwalt commanded by Captain James Kirk?

Indeed it was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Kirk

 

[jackoverfull]

Intrepid being a limited, smaller, but "quick and smart" counterpart to the Galaxy that never saw widespread production, it still sits strange that they would retire them all before their hulls wore out and threw the Intrepid's name back on the "can use" list. But let's say that they "only" made six,

If they only made a few they might not need to “retire” them: we know Voyager is in the museum, the few others might have been destroyed or just somewhere else around the galaxy. And if you insist that the PIC fleet had ALL OF STARFLEET in it maybe we didn’t see the lone intrepid among all the other ships.

class a failure (any more than the Galaxy, and we don't see any of THOSE around in PIC either), but just a victim of the times

Exactly. And we saw plenty of Galaxies on DS9.

Obviously, we can't discount the likely, production-based reason to NOT to show off any Galaxies or Voyager in S3 of Picard, to give the actual appearances of the E-D and Voyager additional value.

Pretty much. And I guess for the fleet in prodigy too, as Voyager is equally significant for that series and they might want to save it for a future appearance.

 

[Dukhat]

And we saw plenty of Galaxies on DS9.

We did? I only remember seeing five or six of them at any one time in the fleet shots. We saw way more Excelsiors, Mirandas, Akiras, Steamrunners and Sabers.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Sisko mentioned several "Galaxy Wings" in Sacrifice of Budget...er...Angels. If it follows the current definition from NATO-based military parlance:

In military aviation, a wing is a unit of command. In most military aviation services, a wing is a relatively large formation of planes. In Commonwealth countries a wing usually comprises three squadrons, with several wings forming a group (around 10 squadrons). Each squadron will contain around 20 planes.

If one Galaxy = one plane, that's a metric ass-ton of Galaxies, FWIW.

 

[David cgc]

Carrier groups is probably the more apt analogy, with a "Galaxy Wing" being multiple ships of various types centered on a Galaxy-class.

 

[Ithekro]

There were something like nine or ten Galaxy-class starships at the Sol System when USS Voyager returned home (they were there to intercept a Borg Sphere).

 

[Enterprise1701]

There were something like nine or ten Galaxy-class starships at the Sol System when USS Voyager returned home (they were there to intercept a Borg Sphere).

I'm not sure I can make out that many Galaxy vessels, but I suppose you could be right.

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[Markonian]

Prometheus class always gets shafted.

 

[Enterprise1701]

Huh. You're right; no Prometheus units showed up in PIC.

 

[Janewaysson]

Huh. You're right; no Prometheus units showed up in PIC.

When it came to picking ships, ship classes, ship names, ship designs... Picard really dropped the ball. It was always very random.

 

[DEWLine]

Huh. You're right; no Prometheus units showed up in PIC.

Doesn't mean they don't exist.

The ones that do were likely assigned elsewhere.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, with the EMH Mk. 2 and Romulans basically having the plans for the whole thing doesn't seem strategic to keep it in high production.