PIC S3 Ships & Tech

[Tarek71]

I liked the museum. Presumably, the ships selected to be laid out for featured showing in those outer rings are periodically rotated so I am sure they have more ships that take turns there.

As for active ships, I didn't mind the "neo-Constitution" idea, although if a new block of Constitution Class ships are to be built, I would rather they stick closer to the legendary lines of the Probert refit design, with maybe the Gagarin nacelles. Not a huge fan of what we got instead. Titan is not bad, but falls well short of the classic Refit design.

 

[C.E. Evans]

So much of what Starfleet does is arbitrary, and possibly at the personal whim of an admiral in charge, IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if some ranking admiral looked sideways at the design during its development and said, "It kind of looks like a modern-day Constitution to me," and thus it became known as the Neo-Constitution-class. Someone else in charge might have thought differently and the design would've been named differently.

 

[Dukhat]

So much of what Starfleet does is arbitrary, and possibly at the personal whim of an admiral in charge, IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if some ranking admiral looked sideways at the design during its development and said, "It kind of looks like a modern-day Constitution to me," and thus it became known as the Neo-Constitution-class. Someone else in charge might have thought differently and the design would've been named differently.

The amusing thing is, it looks 90% like the Shangri-La class it was based upon, so why isn’t it the Shangri-La II class?

 

[C.E. Evans]

The amusing thing is, it looks 90% like the Shangri-La class it was based upon, so why isn’t it the Shangri-La II class?

Could be that someone was simply more familiar with the Constitution-class. As I said earlier, it could be just an arbitrary decision by someone in charge that another person in the same position may have done differently.

 

[jackoverfull]

I was wondering, un real life if a ship gets a really substantial refit does it get a new class name, like Nova to Neo-Constitution, or keep the old one like the Constitution refit?

 

[Nate]

My notes from 306. Apologies for stuff already covered:

[Aside: WOW!!!]

- And I'm (very) slowly coming round to the notion that the Excelsior IIs we've seen could be literal refits of the original Excelsior hulls if Starfleet can do the same sort of thing from the Connie I to II or whatever fandom settles on with the SNW Enterprise. The two Excelsior IIs have numbers in the 42000 range which match (most) of the newer Excelsior hulls we run into in the TNG era. My headcanon goes that they're post Utopia Planitia upgrades that are the equivalent of SLEP upgrades in today's US warships, which have been known to result in significant external changes (though not to the visual degree we see here). QED.

Mark

I really like this theory. While I know registry numbers have never been sequential I prefer them to have some logic. This nicely allows the 42xxx numbers to fit in & explains why Excelsior has a higher registry number. Also works well with the resource limits mentioned after the Utopia Planitia attack.

 

[Racefuel]

I was wondering, un real life if a ship gets a really substantial refit does it get a new class name, like Nova to Neo-Constitution, or keep the old one like the Constitution refit?

Yes, sometimes.

The best example I can offer for this is when a WW2 era heavy cruiser, the USS Chicago was initially a Baltimore class cruiser. She served from 1945 until 1958 as a Baltimore class cruiser.

In 1958 she was taken into the yards to begin a 5 year rebuild that saw her stripped down to the deck and rebuilt as an Albany class guided missile cruiser.

In other cases you can have a sub-variant of a class be given its own distinct name, then after modernization and refit, becomes just the normal name. USS Ticonderoga CV-14 was a Ticonderoga sub-class of the Essex class, yet after a rebuild in the late 50's, was simply known as an Essex class again.

 

[Macintosh]

I was wondering, un real life if a ship gets a really substantial refit does it get a new class name, like Nova to Neo-Constitution, or keep the old one like the Constitution refit?

Yes, sometimes.

The best example I can offer for this is when a WW2 era heavy cruiser, the USS Chicago was initially a Baltimore class cruiser. She served from 1945 until 1958 as a Baltimore class cruiser.

In 1958 she was taken into the yards to begin a 5 year rebuild that saw her stripped down to the deck and rebuilt as an Albany class guided missile cruiser.

In other cases you can have a sub-variant of a class be given its own distinct name, then after modernization and refit, becomes just the normal name. USS Ticonderoga CV-14 was a Ticonderoga sub-class of the Essex class, yet after a rebuild in the late 50's, was simply known as an Essex class again.

Don't forget that for years some fans referred to the refit Constitution-class as the Enterprise-class; this also seems to have been the intent of the production teams for TMP and TWoK. It wasn't until the Star Trek Encyclopedia was first published in 1994 that "refit Constitution" was confirmed as the canonical name for the class.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I still call it Enterprise class.

 

[blssdwlf]

So like Racefuel's example goes, canonically the Enterprise could be Enterprise-class in TWOK and possibly TMP timeframe and the Enterprise-A the Constitution-class in TUC and beyond. Curious that the New Jersey wasn't called out as a Constitution-class.

 

[Racefuel]

I still call it Enterprise class.

It's also entirely possible that the Refit is now known as the Constitution II class, since the Titan is part of the Constitution III class. Riker calls it a "Neo-Constitution" class which implies it's the first "Constitution" since what we think of them as being.

 

[Unicron]

My basic understanding is, Andrew Probert had intended the Enterprise to represent a new build of the Constitution family when TMP was in production, and it's been a common naval tradition for years for subclasses and variants to be named for ships that have either been refit or become leads of a new class when building plans changed. IIRC, Gene was opposed to that idea and insisted on keeping the Constitution class name, but the Enterprise class name persisted in a number of other sources like FASA and Ships of the Starfleet (which also had a limited run of builds as a separate Constitution II block).

FASA wrote that although the total Constitution build was fairly large (around 40 vessels), the Enterprise was the only ship of the original 12 block to survive its five year expedition, and initially the refit was intended to be a much smaller scale before Scott and the Starfleet Engineers realized it would require far more work to mount the newer systems. Jackill's books use a similar treatment for other refits of the Franz Joseph fleet, with the Saladin class USS Siva become the lead ship of the refitted destroyers and later the Excelsior family Loki class supplanting them.

For my part, I'm with 137th Gebirg in feeling this system works in terms of the technology changes and class evolution.

 

[Macintosh]

It's also entirely possible that the Refit is now known as the Constitution II class, since the Titan is part of the Constitution III class. Riker calls it a "Neo-Constitution" class which implies it's the first "Constitution" since what we think of them as being.

I've been assuming that's where the Titan-A's "Constitution III-class" thing is coming from, per her dedication plaque. I is TOS configuration, II is TMP configuration, III is "Neo-Constitution". Even though it really should be "Neo-Shangri-La"...

Just bugs me that they're recycling all these class names

I still call it Enterprise class.

I wouldn't mind the refit Constitution-class having been named the Enterprise-class. Indeed, it would have solved a lot of ambiguity. But they decided to not go down this route, and so here we are... with at least four different Constitution-classes

 

[Nate]

I've been assuming that's where the Titan-A's "Constitution III-class" thing is coming from, per her dedication plaque. I is TOS configuration, II is TMP configuration, III is "Neo-Constitution". Even though it really should be "Neo-Shangri-La"...

Just bugs me that they're recycling all these class names



I wouldn't mind the refit Constitution-class having been named the Enterprise-class. Indeed, it would have solved a lot of ambiguity. But they decided to not go down this route, and so here we are... with at least four different Constitution-classes

Not unprecedented though. The USN has had at least 3 Virginia classes that I can think of off the top of my head. Battleship early 1900s, cruiser late 1900s and the current submarine.

 

[blssdwlf]

I wouldn't mind the refit Constitution-class having been named the Enterprise-class. Indeed, it would have solved a lot of ambiguity. But they decided to not go down this route, and so here we are... with at least four different Constitution-classes

The Mark IV Simulator sign in TWOK says "Enterprise Class".

https://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twokhd/twokhd0093.jpg

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

..And Scotty’s blueprints in ST6 say “Constitution-class” in 1992.

Some have tried to pretzel “Enterprise Class” to literally mean that it’s the simiulator for the class of cadets who’ll be embarking for a li’l training cruise on the Enterprise. Next door would be the sim for the “Republic Class”, and so on.

Mark

 

[Magistos]

Through the years I kind of figured that the Enterprise was refit, and as it has been stated, the refit was intended to be a much smaller scale before Scott and the Starfleet Engineers realized it would require far more work to mount the newer systems. Because of the "jury rigging", the Enterprise is technically the only ship of her class, but the lessons learned led to the refit-style Constitution class, so while they may resemble each other, they are not very much alike at all.

So calling her a refit Constitution and/or Enterprise class is laziness/shorthand. They both work, unless you want to push up your glasses and say "technically...". (Because the fandom never does that...)

Where did I get this idea from? The USS John F Kennedy. (CV-67, not CV-79)

 

[137th Gebirg]

I wouldn't mind the refit Constitution-class having been named the Enterprise-class. Indeed, it would have solved a lot of ambiguity. But they decided to not go down this route, and so here we are... with at least four different Constitution-classes

Agreed, with all the different Constitution monikers these days (plus the still-oddly-same-but-different Sombra class, which I STILL don't get), it would almost be helpful to name any TMP Connie variant as "Enterprise Class".

 

[valkyrie013]

Connie II or more than likely, Constitution ,Enterprise sub class.

 

[Racefuel]

Connie II or more than likely, Constitution ,Enterprise sub class.

Constitution II-Enterprise Type is probably the most technical and accurate description