PRO-Starfleet uses the AGT commbadge and AGT-like uniforms in 2384 while the PIC flashbacks to 2385 still use the FC commbadge.
PIC S3 Ships & Tech
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PRO-Starfleet uses the AGT commbadge and AGT-like uniforms in 2384 while the PIC flashbacks to 2385 still use the FC commbadge.
Either that or the Ascension class. I'd have to see it myself to be certain.
That's how they made the old Trek films so cheaply (relatively speaking). They had an entire warehouse of props, costumes, etc going all the way back to the Desilu days to draw upon. They saved even more money by filming on various existing sets when the show they belonged to wasn't using them.
I got a better look of it and I see why it looks weird to me in those screenshots. It appears to be a bunch of criss-crossing blue glowing rods that are in the mid-section of the nacelle.
Doesn't really change my point about unoriginal ships designs. The STO ships they've chosen are just updated from older designs. They could at least have used STO designs that were more original.
On Lower Decks we see that starfleet use different designs of badges concurrently.
Yeah, that they sold or even destroyed most of it when Enterprise wrapped is appalling, as it was obvious that while that streak of Star Trek was over the show would be back sooner than later in a form or another.
Also, the old and new Enterprises were of roughly the same configuration.
I remember fans were even trying to raise funds to pay for storing the Enterprise sets against the day that they could talk the PTB into doing Season 5. But the money men had their spreadsheets that said Trek was dead, so down the sets went and off to the auction house with the archive of assets.
As far as we know, the 1701-A was never destroyed. It was decomissioned shortyl after the events of ST: VI.
As for VOY-B... gah... not that one too.
We hadn't even SEEN the VOY-A and they are already on the B in the early 25th century?
Are ST: Pic showmaker idiots?
First its the large number of new classes of ships that look nearly the same as the old designs with some minor changes but are considered entirely different different class alltogether...
Then we have exceptionally short lived starship active service lifespans of 10 to 20 years if we're lucky (with ships that are SUPPOSED TO BE DESIGNED to last 200 year AT LEAST - not taking into account generational upgrades that could/would refresh the entire ship's superstructure and make it brand spanking new every 25-50 odd years and keep the same ship in service indefinitely and on par with modern ships [barring its destroyed or retired out of service because it did something exceptionarily well and SF wanted to turn it into a museum] - and in the meantime, it would also get design upgrades/changes so its look would change significantly after 100 or 200 years to be different compared to the original - obviously, internal technology gets upgraded much more frequently, several smaller upgrades/refits in the first 10 years, or maybe 1 major internal system upgrade every 7 years - depending on how far away a ship is - if they have 5 year missions, then they would likely do it once every 5 years, unless the crew does it themselves in the field - which some may need to depending how far away they are - and realistically, some engineers don't want to wait too long and just implement upgrades on their own over time).
At this point, I'm HOPING that VOY-A ends up doing something nearly as 'historic' as the original VOY did and that's why it's retired so soon... or that picture is actually VOY-A?
Was it confirmed that's the VOY-B in that screenshot? Or is that just a wild guess?
Welcome to Hollywood. Unless you have a guarantee of reuse it is too expensive to store. Even Lucas destroyed many of Episode 1's sets and recreated them digitally for the next film instead of storing.
Yes.
Maybe its PIC that's inconsistent with PRO and earlier shows.
The show's producers and writers seem to be churning out new ship designs just because they feel like it.
What's the problem is just saying on-screen for a few seconds that the original ships got an internal and external upgrade because of integration of new technologies (such as the one from the Borg)?
That can explain design changes and remove the addition of new letter prefixes which make it seem a ship has an expiration date of 20 years (when it should be 200 if it got 0 generational 'refresh' to its infrastructure?).
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I fear that this extends "back" to the 31st-century refit of the Discovery. Us nerds theorized that it was to keep the existence of a temporally-displaced, 23rd-century starship off the official books, but really it's the first example in the current era of production that they've pasted a suffix to a ship during a refit for no in-universe reason.
Mark
Mark
exactly. But there was also that ship that got to -M and was yet supposed to be the same ship after many refits.
Well, as far as we know SF did redesign the 1701 originally without chaging its class or giving it a new suffix letter.
The letter A was added because the original/refit 1701 was destroyed... so, within that context, it made sense.
The A's service record was relatively brief compared to the 1701 though.
In this context, I too think that SF simply gave Disco the A suffix because the ship was temporally displaced in time and they wanted to avoid a potential issue with the temporal accords (in fairness, an exception was rightfully extended given what the ship and crew had done to ensure the future did in fact preserve existence of sentient life).
But in the case of USS Defiant for example, when the ship was destroyed and then the name replaced that of the Sao Paolo, no new suffix was added.
Which ship was that?
In fairness, yes, that should be possible (Assuming the vessel in question was never destroyed in active service and it just continued to be refit/redesigned during relevant periods throughout history and passed on to new crews until it got to the M version).
That would be an accomplishment in itself though... a ship originally built in say the 23rd or 24th century, only for it to remain in service for 930 or 800 years with major external design changes every 100 years or so (and many internal upgrades in shorter time frames to keep it up with the times).
In that context, the vessel would effecrively not differ than any other ship that was brand new and right off the assembly line.
The main difference is that the ship in question simply SURVIVED in active service for 800 to 930 odd years and was continuously 'refreshed' and upgraded during its service.
the second defiant kept the São Paulo registry. Unfortunately they reused plenty of shots from previous episodes, so it ALSO shows up with the one of the first Defiant, but that’s clearly an error.
The Tikhov:
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Tikhov
Welcome to art. Art is about feeling not logic.
Nothing wrong with that. They just dont't want to.
My notes so far:
- The Eleos seems to be a contemporary of the SS Raven from "Voyager", as a quasi-civilian-use, Federation-built starship that can be operated by a minimal crew.
- What sentimental value does Picard ascribe to an "Enterprise-D communicator"? As it stands the design had already been replaced by the "Generations" movie, and was in use for more than a few years prior. Perhaps this is one he had from his days on the Stargazer, and kept it around in a box of keepsakes including a later TNG red uniform?
- Similarly, his Kurlan Naiskos has been rotated from his ready room on the Enterprise-D, to the ready room floor, to his quantum archive vault, to a shelf at his renovated home in Picard S2, and now to his desk. He started out the episode with a spring cleaning anyway, so it's funny how some things get passed around.
- Riker and Picard sign aboard the Titan in a new cylindrical shuttle that's reminiscent of the travel pod from TMP et al. It has the circular docking ring at the back, which seems to help justify the continued existence of circular docking ports that are seen and never used on ships like the Titan, Sovereign-class, etc.
- The docking ring is seen AND used on Titan's Shuttle 3 (the Saavik, named for a Captain of a previous Titan as ancillary information has revealed), which is itself a modified version of the shuttle Picard took to the Stargazer last year. This in turn is nearly identical to the Enterprise-E Type-11 shuttle from "Insurrection", twenty-five years ago this year.
- Either way, the travel pod / Titan shuttle use the same interior set, which vaguely echoes the Insurrection shuttle cockpit that was redressed from the DS9 runabout set. This time though they have a proper door at the back of the room and not a transporter pad with no clear access to the rear sections of the shuttle.
- The Titan shares the shuttlebay set as the Stargazer, which is the same CG graphic of Discovery's shuttlebay. That's okay though, since this Spacedock also uses Disco-era worker bees.
- Riker's uniform bears mention here, as it's not the standard duty uniform and we don't see anyone else in one. Is this the new dress uniform for inspections? Shore-based Captains? Officers without a ship assignment? He was wearing a 2399-standard uniform the last time we saw him. He's still active here, but not wearing the same uniform as everyone else? At least until he gets his leather ver
- I know this refit nonsense will hound us for the rest of this era of Trek, but at least from dialogue it vaguely supports a theory that Riker was the captain of the Titan-A for a while, before giving up command. The ship was then refit in the interim and handed over to Shaw.
- The Titan-A has a maximum sustainable velocity of warp 9.99, which surpasses Voyager's top speed of 9.975 and whatever the Prometheus' number was (she was mentioned by EMH-2 as the fastest ship in the fleet at the time in "Message In a Bottle"). However fast 9.99 is, they can get from Earth to the "edge of Federation space" in what, less than a day..?
- The District Seven Starfleet facility that gets portaled at the end of the episode has an SNW shuttle parked on one of the landing pads, suggesting it's in active use and not just a "gate guardian".
- Picard calls up Crusher's most recent Starfleet medical profile, which calls up a TNG series headshot, blue uniform and all. May not be as current as one thinks.
Mark
- The Eleos seems to be a contemporary of the SS Raven from "Voyager", as a quasi-civilian-use, Federation-built starship that can be operated by a minimal crew.
- What sentimental value does Picard ascribe to an "Enterprise-D communicator"? As it stands the design had already been replaced by the "Generations" movie, and was in use for more than a few years prior. Perhaps this is one he had from his days on the Stargazer, and kept it around in a box of keepsakes including a later TNG red uniform?
- Similarly, his Kurlan Naiskos has been rotated from his ready room on the Enterprise-D, to the ready room floor, to his quantum archive vault, to a shelf at his renovated home in Picard S2, and now to his desk. He started out the episode with a spring cleaning anyway, so it's funny how some things get passed around.
- Riker and Picard sign aboard the Titan in a new cylindrical shuttle that's reminiscent of the travel pod from TMP et al. It has the circular docking ring at the back, which seems to help justify the continued existence of circular docking ports that are seen and never used on ships like the Titan, Sovereign-class, etc.
- The docking ring is seen AND used on Titan's Shuttle 3 (the Saavik, named for a Captain of a previous Titan as ancillary information has revealed), which is itself a modified version of the shuttle Picard took to the Stargazer last year. This in turn is nearly identical to the Enterprise-E Type-11 shuttle from "Insurrection", twenty-five years ago this year.
- Either way, the travel pod / Titan shuttle use the same interior set, which vaguely echoes the Insurrection shuttle cockpit that was redressed from the DS9 runabout set. This time though they have a proper door at the back of the room and not a transporter pad with no clear access to the rear sections of the shuttle.
- The Titan shares the shuttlebay set as the Stargazer, which is the same CG graphic of Discovery's shuttlebay. That's okay though, since this Spacedock also uses Disco-era worker bees.
- Riker's uniform bears mention here, as it's not the standard duty uniform and we don't see anyone else in one. Is this the new dress uniform for inspections? Shore-based Captains? Officers without a ship assignment? He was wearing a 2399-standard uniform the last time we saw him. He's still active here, but not wearing the same uniform as everyone else? At least until he gets his leather ver
- I know this refit nonsense will hound us for the rest of this era of Trek, but at least from dialogue it vaguely supports a theory that Riker was the captain of the Titan-A for a while, before giving up command. The ship was then refit in the interim and handed over to Shaw.
- The Titan-A has a maximum sustainable velocity of warp 9.99, which surpasses Voyager's top speed of 9.975 and whatever the Prometheus' number was (she was mentioned by EMH-2 as the fastest ship in the fleet at the time in "Message In a Bottle"). However fast 9.99 is, they can get from Earth to the "edge of Federation space" in what, less than a day..?
- The District Seven Starfleet facility that gets portaled at the end of the episode has an SNW shuttle parked on one of the landing pads, suggesting it's in active use and not just a "gate guardian".
- Picard calls up Crusher's most recent Starfleet medical profile, which calls up a TNG series headshot, blue uniform and all. May not be as current as one thinks.
Mark
All my doctor's, dentist, and other medical offices my head shots are easily 10 years old.
Not quite accurate, since there IS a pattern to art. And also, I did/do art, and it doesn't have to be void of logic (in fact there's a lot more structure to it than people think there is).
Feelings in contrast also have patterns and are clearly shaped by (fairly predictable) environmental stimuli. There's art that makes sense and is done with a purpose... and then there's art which has no purpose and makes little to no sense (such as the for profit canvases which contain nothing on them, or just a dot... or a brick, etc.)
Within the scope of Trek that's more science fiction based, art should have been used to reflect a more sensible/logical setting (aka, don't just replace existing ships after ridiculously short time in active service given that UFP tech can easily upgrade internally and externally a ship in proverbial perpetuity to keep it in active service unless its destroyed or decomissioned due to extraordinary accomplishments).
Hence my issue with how they move forward - aka, it doesn't make sense.
For the Voyager to already get to the B prefix by the 25th century (which I don't think was even confirmed as the VOY in the first place), that would be the third incarnation of the vessel with the same name (and only 9 more to go to reach letter J by the 31st century).
So, either the technology radically changed which necessitated swapping out ship designs of the late 24th century for brand new ones until the 25th century, and then SF put a stop to the madness in the 25th century and went with more sensible/longer lasting service record and upgrade paths for all existing ships in service (you know, like they used to do and which would have given all their ships in service same technological capabilities of the modern ships and 'newness' despite their age)... or Pic is severely out of sync with the rest of the Trek canon and SF is just now replacing ships every 20 years (which makes no practical sense within the Trek universe as such).
Setting aside the ridiculously short lifespan of ships, PIC season 3 thus far seems... interesting at the very least from a narrative point of view.
The clicker aliens reminded me about the ones from TNG who lived in subspace and were pulling the crew from the ENT-D to their domain to experiment on them.
But, what I've seen from the earlier promos of the series, the 'main baddie' is yet another villain who wants to bring down UFP and may (or may not) be using memory alteration technology to manipulate people and situations.
Anyway, its all out of context for now... but its marginally more interesting than most of Season 2.
They do. It's a post-scarcity world. They can replace whatever they damn well please.
Yes, of course. But, what I am saying is many artists will do things due to the emotion it provokes, not just a logical thing. At least, the artists I know. Your art is your art and Star Trek is a whole bunch of other people's art. I don't expect nor demand people conform to my opinion on art.
Makes sense to me. Starfleet decides to recycle ships faster because they can.
Ok, so it's not practical...and? I'm seriously struggling at this point because I don't watch this fictional universe for practicality!
I'm happy enough accepting that "famous" ships like the Enterprise get into tougher scrapes more often, as their higher profile gets them into dicier situations more often than average (ref: "Tin Man" et. al.). Therefore, the odds of an Enterprise suffering enough damage to warrant taking her out of the fleet because it would be too resource-intensive to fix her up again are higher than, say, the average California-class ship.
I mean sure, the Enterprise-E gets her whole saucer in the crumple-zone and they apparently straighten things out well enough - but consider that the Sovereign-class was probably still in active production at the time, and hence has a ton of spare parts and resources to machine them alotted. The Galaxy-class MAY have been in production by the time of the E-D loss, but it always struck me that those ships were rare and perhaps all the hulls in production were assigned to ships and they couldn't justify enough to build a new stardrive to bolt a recovered saucer to, when shiny new Sovereigns were awaiting spots on the construction lines.
And who knows what sort of catastrophic damage "Effie" must have suffered to warrant an early retirement, as she seems perfectly content flying in formation. Maybe she can't safely warp anymore after whatever mess she got into, but impulse is just fine? Or her evacuation adventure meant she was over-loaded with evacuees and the waste-extraction units just couldn't handle the strain, resulting in... irrecoverable damage? As it stands the Odyssey class is a whale of a ship and it wouldn't surprise me at all that they would be low production run just like many of us think the Galaxies were. And like the A380 airliner in real life, they're not sensible enough to build forever in the current economic and aviation industry environments, so even perfectly-flyable older examples are being scrapped for parts to support the rest of the fleet.
At the end of the day, we're seeing world-building happen in front of our eyes and I'm all the happier for it. We may never see the final fate of the E-E or even a single adventure of Effie herself save her last one, but we're laying (admittedly frustrating!) story seeds that may pay off years or even decades from now. So for now, these details are under the same banner as many Bothans dying, or how many Doctors are actually flitting around time and space in a blue box.
Mark
I mean sure, the Enterprise-E gets her whole saucer in the crumple-zone and they apparently straighten things out well enough - but consider that the Sovereign-class was probably still in active production at the time, and hence has a ton of spare parts and resources to machine them alotted. The Galaxy-class MAY have been in production by the time of the E-D loss, but it always struck me that those ships were rare and perhaps all the hulls in production were assigned to ships and they couldn't justify enough to build a new stardrive to bolt a recovered saucer to, when shiny new Sovereigns were awaiting spots on the construction lines.
And who knows what sort of catastrophic damage "Effie" must have suffered to warrant an early retirement, as she seems perfectly content flying in formation. Maybe she can't safely warp anymore after whatever mess she got into, but impulse is just fine? Or her evacuation adventure meant she was over-loaded with evacuees and the waste-extraction units just couldn't handle the strain, resulting in... irrecoverable damage? As it stands the Odyssey class is a whale of a ship and it wouldn't surprise me at all that they would be low production run just like many of us think the Galaxies were. And like the A380 airliner in real life, they're not sensible enough to build forever in the current economic and aviation industry environments, so even perfectly-flyable older examples are being scrapped for parts to support the rest of the fleet.
At the end of the day, we're seeing world-building happen in front of our eyes and I'm all the happier for it. We may never see the final fate of the E-E or even a single adventure of Effie herself save her last one, but we're laying (admittedly frustrating!) story seeds that may pay off years or even decades from now. So for now, these details are under the same banner as many Bothans dying, or how many Doctors are actually flitting around time and space in a blue box.
Mark
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