PHASE II successful?

[QuasarVM]

It wasn't rediculous. Paramount apparently couldn't figure out how to make it financially feasible and get stations to pick up all the hours of programming they wanted to do.

Then Star Wars became a runaway hit and they figured a Star Trek film would be the thing to do.

No, Phase II only came into being AFTER Planet of Titans was cancelled, AFTER SW came out and hit huge (they figured they'd been beaten to the punch and gave up in favor of tv.) It wasn't till a few months later that it switched back to being a new feature release.

There were other modest fourth network bits around that time; if you look up operation primetime you'll probably see something about it, combining made for tv movies and miniseries. It was a pseudo network consisting of unaffiliated locals (the very stations that made TOS huge in syndication.)

I don't think there was a huge risk with PII ... there just wasn't the smarts (or the serious inclination) to push it through. Dangling the TOS syndication numbers at prospective stations would have been mighty enticing, plus demand for the product had only just peaked in 76 or so.

EDIT ADDON: something else to consider: if Lew Grade could get a second season for 1999 at its price (I remember 275,000 per hour, figuring that is dollars not pounds) just a year or two before, SOMEbody would have funded a half-season or more of TOS.

All interesting, but I'm glad it died...Based on what I saw in season three of TOS, I think Phase 2 would have been TNG season one, mixed with season three of TOS...BAD BAD BAD...

Thank God smarter heads prevailed..

Rob

The writers who submitted scripts for Phase II were, arguably, better writers than those who worked on later series. At least they were science fiction writers and not just "TV writers"...so, I am not sure your comments make much sense in that context...

They seem to be pretty groundless given the evidence.

Personally, I would have liked to have seen P2 as a series -- it would have been many more episodes with our favorite characters and I'll bet had it made it past one season, Nimoy would have been back as Spock eventually.

 

[xortex]

I still would like to see PII, now especially if the movie is a hit.

 

[RobertScorpio]

No, Phase II only came into being AFTER Planet of Titans was cancelled, AFTER SW came out and hit huge (they figured they'd been beaten to the punch and gave up in favor of tv.) It wasn't till a few months later that it switched back to being a new feature release.

There were other modest fourth network bits around that time; if you look up operation primetime you'll probably see something about it, combining made for tv movies and miniseries. It was a pseudo network consisting of unaffiliated locals (the very stations that made TOS huge in syndication.)

I don't think there was a huge risk with PII ... there just wasn't the smarts (or the serious inclination) to push it through. Dangling the TOS syndication numbers at prospective stations would have been mighty enticing, plus demand for the product had only just peaked in 76 or so.

EDIT ADDON: something else to consider: if Lew Grade could get a second season for 1999 at its price (I remember 275,000 per hour, figuring that is dollars not pounds) just a year or two before, SOMEbody would have funded a half-season or more of TOS.

All interesting, but I'm glad it died...Based on what I saw in season three of TOS, I think Phase 2 would have been TNG season one, mixed with season three of TOS...BAD BAD BAD...

Thank God smarter heads prevailed..

Rob

The writers who submitted scripts for Phase II were, arguably, better writers than those who worked on later series. At least they were science fiction writers and not just "TV writers"...so, I am not sure your comments make much sense in that context...

They seem to be pretty groundless given the evidence.

Personally, I would have liked to have seen P2 as a series -- it would have been many more episodes with our favorite characters and I'll bet had it made it past one season, Nimoy would have been back as Spock eventually.

Ummm..Just because they were good writers doesn't mean they submitted good scripts..

And as for writing for modern TV shows? I'll take RDM over Elllison or any of the P2 writers who, by the late 70s, really were begging to write for TV....What did Ellison write for TREK after CITY? Nothing...and I can site several TREK episodes penned by Moore, or Michael Taylor, that are just as good as City..and these two 'tv writers' did it more than once..Ellison is an overated cry-baby in my book...living off past successes...

much like Dr. Daystrom and his M5...Ellison wrote CITY and never would write anything for either TREK, or any other TV show I might add, that would really be known outside the genre as City is...and even then, as I have said elsewhere, Roddenberry IMPROVED Ellison's script...

Rob

Rob

 

[trevanian]

And as for writing for modern TV shows? I'll take RDM over Elllison or any of the P2 writers who, by the late 70s, really were begging to write for TV....What did Ellison write for TREK after CITY? Nothing...and I can site several TREK episodes penned by Moore, or Michael Taylor, that are just as good as City..and these two 'tv writers' did it more than once..Ellison is an overated cry-baby in my book...living off past successes...

much like Dr. Daystrom and his M5...Ellison wrote CITY and never would write anything for either TREK, or any other TV show I might add, that would really be known outside the genre as City is...and even then, as I have said elsewhere, Roddenberry IMPROVED Ellison's script...
Rob

None of which makes sense if you consider that Ellison was solicited to write the first Trek movie twice and was contacted about writing the second and the fourth as well.

As for that 'begging' bit ... well, nuh-uhh, ain't true. And p2, if it had lasted 13 weeks, would have had a larger array of talent available, since Fontana and Gerrold and others who were linked to the BUCK ROGERS revival (before Larson got involved) would have become available again.

 

[QuasarVM]

All interesting, but I'm glad it died...Based on what I saw in season three of TOS, I think Phase 2 would have been TNG season one, mixed with season three of TOS...BAD BAD BAD...

Thank God smarter heads prevailed..

Rob

The writers who submitted scripts for Phase II were, arguably, better writers than those who worked on later series. At least they were science fiction writers and not just "TV writers"...so, I am not sure your comments make much sense in that context...

They seem to be pretty groundless given the evidence.

Personally, I would have liked to have seen P2 as a series -- it would have been many more episodes with our favorite characters and I'll bet had it made it past one season, Nimoy would have been back as Spock eventually.

Ummm..Just because they were good writers doesn't mean they submitted good scripts..

And as for writing for modern TV shows? I'll take RDM over Elllison or any of the P2 writers who, by the late 70s, really were begging to write for TV....What did Ellison write for TREK after CITY? Nothing...and I can site several TREK episodes penned by Moore, or Michael Taylor, that are just as good as City..and these two 'tv writers' did it more than once..Ellison is an overated cry-baby in my book...living off past successes...

much like Dr. Daystrom and his M5...Ellison wrote CITY and never would write anything for either TREK, or any other TV show I might add, that would really be known outside the genre as City is...and even then, as I have said elsewhere, Roddenberry IMPROVED Ellison's script...

Rob

Rob

Well, I'm not sure how this turned into an "Ellison bashing session" but the man has written some great and CLASSIC TV. The jury is out on RDM...who I think is a decent writer (but I will not forgive him for killing off Kirk in the lames of ways). I don't care for his BSG...to me, it's boring.

Nevertheless, here's what Ellison has done that has written (and others can feel free to add in -- in case I miss anything) that are established CLASSICS.

1. City on the Edge of Forever
2. Demon With a Glass Hand (The Outer Limits)
3. A Boy and His Dog (feature film)
4. Was VERY involved with the development of Babylon 5
5. Soldier (The Outer Limits) -- which was good enough for James Cameron to steal for that little franchise called, oh...what's it called?

The Terminator.

Ellison won a lawsuit on that one.

As far as I can remember, Ellison has only been a "crybaby" about "City" and even though his tirades on that grew tiresome years ago -- I DO respect the man for staying true to his convictions. HE believes his version was better than the one televised and didn't want it re-written because he believed in it as-is.

That's his opinion just as you have yours about the science fiction writers who were slated to write for P2. We'll never know how good they would have been (or the opposite) since they were never produced...

I really think that series would have gone down the same way as TNG -- shaky at first but gathering strength as it went along...but again, we'll never know for sure.

 

[Chaos Descending]

5. Soldier (The Outer Limits) -- which was good enough for James Cameron to steal for that little franchise called, oh...what's it called?

The Terminator.

What an enormous stretch of the truth! First of all, Soldier and The Terminator don't have very much in common at all. About the only common thread is that in each franchise two enemies from the future arrive in the present. Every other thing about them is totally different.

Besides, what happened was that Ellison didn't make a stink about it until he saw an interview with Cameron in which stated that he drew inspiration from Soldier and Demon With a Glass Hand.

Ellison won a lawsuit on that one.

I suppose that's a matter of opinion, and purely semantic, since Cameron and Ellison settled out of court. What Ellison actually "won" was a blurb in the end credits of Terminator that says words to the effect of "Acknowledgments to the works of Harlan Ellison"

 

[QuasarVM]

5. Soldier (The Outer Limits) -- which was good enough for James Cameron to steal for that little franchise called, oh...what's it called?

The Terminator.

What an enormous stretch of the truth! First of all, Soldier and The Terminator don't have very much in common at all. About the only common thread is that in each franchise two enemies from the future arrive in the present. Every other thing about them is totally different.

Besides, what happened was that Ellison didn't make a stink about it until he saw an interview with Cameron in which stated that he drew inspiration from Soldier and Demon With a Glass Hand.

Ellison won a lawsuit on that one.

I suppose that's a matter of opinion, and purely semantic, since Cameron and Ellison settled out of court. What Ellison actually "won" was a blurb in the end credits of Terminator that says words to the effect of "Acknowledgments to the works of Harlan Ellison"

If Cameron felt his material was so original then why did he settle?

I never would have.

But...don't get me wrong, I'm a Cameron fan. And you know what they say -- if you're going to steal, steal from the best!

 

[RobertScorpio]

5. Soldier (The Outer Limits) -- which was good enough for James Cameron to steal for that little franchise called, oh...what's it called?

The Terminator.

What an enormous stretch of the truth! First of all, Soldier and The Terminator don't have very much in common at all. About the only common thread is that in each franchise two enemies from the future arrive in the present. Every other thing about them is totally different.

Besides, what happened was that Ellison didn't make a stink about it until he saw an interview with Cameron in which stated that he drew inspiration from Soldier and Demon With a Glass Hand.

Ellison won a lawsuit on that one.

I suppose that's a matter of opinion, and purely semantic, since Cameron and Ellison settled out of court. What Ellison actually "won" was a blurb in the end credits of Terminator that says words to the effect of "Acknowledgments to the works of Harlan Ellison"

If Cameron felt his material was so original then why did he settle?

I never would have.

But...don't get me wrong, I'm a Cameron fan. And you know what they say -- if you're going to steal, steal from the best!

Cameron felt pity for an unemployed hack, that is why he settled...

Rob

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Cameron felt pity for an unemployed hack, that is why he settled...

Rob

The uninformed opinion strikes again!

Harlan Ellison was hardly unemployed in the 1980s. He was serving as creative consultant on The New Twilight Zone, also contributing a script, "Paladin of the Lost Hour."

The script, based on his novelette of the same name, won the WGA award in 1987. The novelette won the previous year's Hugo award.

He published three short-story collections in the 80s -- Shatterday, Stalking the Nightmare, and Angry Candy. He was also publishing several short stories and essays during that period. His output was hardly that of an "unemployed hack" who deserved pity from a Hollywood director and studio.

You obviously have something against Harlan Ellison, both as a writer and as a person, and have used this thread and others to voice your "contempt."

It's wearing thin.

 

[QuasarVM]

Cameron felt pity for an unemployed hack, that is why he settled...

Rob

The uninformed opinion strikes again!

Harlan Ellison was hardly unemployed in the 1980s. He was serving as creative consultant on The New Twilight Zone, also contributing a script, "Paladin of the Lost Hour."

The script, based on his novelette of the same name, won the WGA award in 1987. The novelette won the previous year's Hugo award.

He published three short-story collections in the 80s -- Shatterday, Stalking the Nightmare, and Angry Candy. He was also publishing several short stories and essays during that period. His output was hardly that of an "unemployed hack" who deserved pity from a Hollywood director and studio.

You obviously have something against Harlan Ellison, both as a writer and as a person, and have used this thread and others to voice your "contempt."

It's wearing thin.

Thanks, Middy! You saved me the trouble of having to "go there"...

His pugnacious personality aside, Ellison IS a great writer...and his contributions to the genre are irrefutable and undeniable.

There's several writers I would put in the "Pantheon of Science Fiction Gods" and Ellison is definitely in there.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

*snip*

Thanks, Middy! You saved me the trouble of having to "go there"...

His pugnacious personality aside, Ellison IS a great writer...and his contributions to the genre are irrefutable and undeniable.

There's several writers I would put in the "Pantheon of Science Fiction Gods" and Ellison is definitely in there.

No problem.

I rally against the rhetoric of those who are ignorant and adhere to the belief that their so-called uninformed opinion is, indeed, fact. One of the lessons I've taken from a particular Harlan Ellison rant is that everyone is entitled to their informed opinion. Then again, I also subscribe to the belief that opinions are orifices that expel brown, smelly waste.

Ellison may have an abrasive personality from time-to-time, but his work speaks more for his talent than his public persona. It's a persona that I occasionally find distasteful. It is, nevertheless, entertaining, especially in person. Yet, when I met him face-to-face at a book signing, he was quite a nice fella and thanked me for my time and support of his work.

Regardless, the work is the work and it's damn good.

If you don't like him or his writing, that's fine but don't pass off incorrect information as if it were fact and that's what's been done in this thread and the thread on Ellison's first-draft COETF script.

Now back to Phase II, already in progress...

 

[Maurice]

The writers who submitted scripts for Phase II were, arguably, better writers than those who worked on later series. At least they were science fiction writers and not just "TV writers"...so, I am not sure your comments make much sense in that context... <snip>

Ummm..Just because they were good writers doesn't mean they submitted good scripts..

I rarely agree with Mr. Scorpio on anything, but I do have to say that just because some of the Phase II stories were by actual SF writers doesn't mean they'd have automatically been great episodes. Even on TOS they found that many of the pro SF writers who weren't also TV writers submitted scripts that didn't work well under the strictures of TV drama. It's a different animal than writing books and short stories. On the other hand, one can hpe that as SF writers, their stories would have had more actual SF content than the crap written by people whose idea of writing sci-fi is to make up some tech terms to explain away a problem laid over a melodrama.

And let's not even talk Ellison here, because with 4 WGAw awards he clearly knows how to write for TV, whether you like him or not.

 

[trevanian]

Cameron felt pity for an unemployed hack, that is why he settled...

Rob

Actually Cameron had to pay out at least twice. The first time was a settlement AND the 'acknowledgment' on all video versions of T. The second time was for more money, because he had not included the acknowledgment on the first video version of T, apparently in a fit of pique that cost Cameron and/or the distributors.

I'm figuring Ellison also gets a tiny bit of change every time they cough out another T flick or series (if not, he'd probably have taken umbrage at the use of his name on the series, which I keep meaning to see but haven't yet.)

Like the other guys said, hard to figure out the scorpio guy's issue here. His credibility gets compromised when he goes on and on like this without substantiation, and it is at a tangent to the subject.

As for phase II, there were good writers (ambrose, lucas) and highly-touted writers (bach ... aRGHH!), but I'm thinking that Jon Povill would have rewritten hell out of some of these bad-sounding ones, turning them into something decent. The aspect that might have most dated P2 is the vfx, which would almost certainly have NOT featured motion control. Mediocre fx would have made it really look like the glimpses of the original GALAXY QUEST tv show.

 

[QuasarVM]

Cameron felt pity for an unemployed hack, that is why he settled...

Rob

Actually Cameron had to pay out at least twice. The first time was a settlement AND the 'acknowledgment' on all video versions of T. The second time was for more money, because he had not included the acknowledgment on the first video version of T, apparently in a fit of pique that cost Cameron and/or the distributors.

That's the way I remember the situation as well...