PHASE II successful?

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I thought the Strangis thing was focusing on cadets aboard ship (a la Bennett's early take on TWOK), or was that another GR spin on the truth?

It's discussed with some interview snippits in the Joel Engle book Gene Roddenberry: The Myth and The Man Behind Star Trek. IIRC, Strangis concept was also set a century after the original series and dealt with the Federation and Klingons coming together to fight some invasion force or common threat. I can't recall if it dealt with cadets, but certainly was to feature a younger crew than the cast in the movies.

I don't own the book so I can't go running to look it up.

 

[Therin of Andor]

In autumn 1986 (just before the release of the fourth movie)... Not once was a prospective new series mentioned

I can research the exact date (Edit: Ah! October 1986), but we had Walter Koenig in Sydney for a convention. ST IV was already in the can, but not released anywhere, and we were desperately pumping him for whales rumours. One thing took us by surprise. He said something like:

"I expect ST IV to be very successful. Don't be surprised if there is an announcement very soon about Star Trek's return... to television."

He would say no more about the subject, but it was the first inkling we had that something was in the works.

 

[RobertScorpio]

In autumn 1986 (just before the release of the fourth movie)... Not once was a prospective new series mentioned

I can research the exact date (Edit: Ah! October 1986), but we had Walter Koenig in Sydney for a convention. ST IV was already in the can, but not released anywhere, and we were desperately pumping him for whales rumours. One thing took us by surprise. He said something like:

"I expect ST IV to be very successful. Don't be surprised if there is an announcement very soon about Star Trek's return... to television."

He would say no more about the subject, but it was the first inkling we had that something was in the works.

Koenig is a very interesting person. I met him here in San Diego at Com-con way back in 1998, I think. We talked for about 15 minutes and I asked him then, with the end of DS9 coming, what the future held for Star Trek. You know what he said, and it stuck with me ever since? He thought TOS was ready for....GASP...a reboot. A new cast of actors playing Kirk and company. He thought there was something magical about TOS that the other shows never came close too...

The man was 10 years ahead of his time!!!

Rob
scorpio

 

[Captain Robert April]

Probably something along the same lines as what TAS almost wound up being, with the precocious kid and the wise cracking robot and Kirk providing a moral at the end of each episode.

 

[trevanian]

I bring this up every couple of years because I am really intrigued by what the answer might be, and since Koenig just came up, I'll throw it out there again: in his diary of TMP, Koenig mentions he and De came up with their own ending for TMP during shooting, and shoot it past Nimoy, who has an objection that it requires the reshoot of his sickbay scene. They take it to Shat who hates it, and that is the end of that.

Does ANYbody know what the notion was? I'd really like to know.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I don't recall the idea, but it does show just how desperate they were to figure out an ending for the movie. It wouldn't surprise me if they were asking the craft service lady if she had any ideas.

 

[xortex]

If Paramount hadn't made such a big deal about their upcoming new network, they wouldn't have painted themselves into a corner regarding Phase II. NBC would've been first in line with bells on to get a new Star Trek series, to redeem what has become known as the most short-sighted decision in television history, i.e., canceling Star Trek.

But after all the crowing, followed by the whole thing unraveling, there was no way they could turn around and try and shop the show to one of the other three networks and get anything resembling a good deal.

Now, take the whole "flagship show of new network" part out of the equation, and it's a whole new ballgame, and a having as executive producer a Gene Roddenberry who was still in command of his mental faculties and not yet fully believing his own hype could very well have produced a helluva a show that might've had a pretty good run.

Of course, that also would've meant no movies, no spinoff shows, or at least not the ones we know today, a much more content and complacent fanbase, and probably a lot fewer conventions.

Remove one thread, and the whole tapestry starts to unravel....

I think it would be a success and has star Trek has taught us 'Anything is possible'.

 

[xortex]

Finances are everything. Paramount pulled the plug on this because it was on track to be a failure - not enough station clearances, no expectation that such an expensive project would bring in the revenues necessary to justify its production.

Look up and read the things that Mel Harris, then President of the Paramount Television Group, said about the business end of getting TNG on the air - they weren't willing to commit to it until sufficient deals were in place to guarantee that the studio wouldn't take a bath if the show only ran for one year (according to reports in industry news outlets like Variety, the studio invested at least 36 million dollars in the first year of TNG). The successful sale of television rights in several foreign markets were what eventually made the show feasible.

Pleas, you're telling me it was a risk to bring back Star Trek. What a laugh.

 

[number6]

^^ All true. In fact IIRC the first season of TNG was offered free of charge. All the affiliates had to do was to run the ads that came with the syndication package. It was the only way TNG could get on the air. It was a huge gamble that paid off in the end.

 

[xortex]

I'm so glad the bean counters were happy. I wasn't.

 

[number6]

I'm so glad the bean counters were happy. I wasn't.

That's really not the point. TNG was a HUGE gamble. Hardcore fans were vary wary of the very existance of a Star Trek series without Kirk and Spock. I was one of them. The only thing that made me curious was that a lot of the original production crew and writers were involved. I didn't enjoy TNG until much later, but my curiosity always won out over my skepticism. I think that's how it was at first with a lot of fans. There was also an entire new generation of fans that sprang up that never saw TOS. In most areas TNG was shown in prime time on the weekends. Paramount did a lot of promotion and a load of Entertainment Tonight tie ins to genenrate interest. The "countdown" marketing campaign was huge.

 

[xortex]

I'm so glad the bean counters were happy. I wasn't.

That's really not the point. TNG was a HUGE gamble. Hardcore fans were vary wary of the very existance of a Star Trek series without Kirk and Spock. I was one of them. The only thing that made me curious was that a lot of the original production crew and writers were involved. I didn't enjoy TNG until much later, but my curiosity always won out over my skepticism. I think that's how it was at first with a lot of fans. There was also an entire new generation of fans that sprang up that never saw TOS. In most areas TNG was shown in prime time on the weekends. Paramount did a lot of promotion and a load of Entertainment Tonight tie ins to genenrate interest. The "countdown" marketing campaign was huge.

and it was the production values I was not happy about. I actually read one of the worst reviews of Patrick stewart i ever have, calling him a half dead stone cold monolith.

 

[number6]

I'm so glad the bean counters were happy. I wasn't.

That's really not the point. TNG was a HUGE gamble. Hardcore fans were vary wary of the very existance of a Star Trek series without Kirk and Spock. I was one of them. The only thing that made me curious was that a lot of the original production crew and writers were involved. I didn't enjoy TNG until much later, but my curiosity always won out over my skepticism. I think that's how it was at first with a lot of fans. There was also an entire new generation of fans that sprang up that never saw TOS. In most areas TNG was shown in prime time on the weekends. Paramount did a lot of promotion and a load of Entertainment Tonight tie ins to genenrate interest. The "countdown" marketing campaign was huge.

and it was the production values I was not happy about. I actually read one of the worst reviews of Patrick stewart i ever have, calling him a half dead stone cold monolith.

The production values really bugged me too. It looked like a Glen Larson production!! Personal asthetic feelings aside, though.. I watched the series first run with a great deal of skepticism, and like a lot of people I was eventually won over. Keep in mind, I didn't run home to watch TNG until I saw "Darmok."

The studio took a huge gamble with TNG, without which I don't think we'd be talking about a franchise of 11 films and 6 series today.

 

[Kryton]

I will remind my esteemed friend Number 6 that, at that time, cable television was undergoing a huge expansion...and broadcast TV really felt it needed to compete.

Previously, the syndicated television market had been "stripped" reruns (meaning weekly shows repeated every weekday afternoon or evening) and game shows.

The TV industry itself was ready for a new model...and the "ORIGINAL" syndication trailblazer (TOS was the first "stripped" show with fewer than 100 episodes) was re-presenting itself in an updated format.

Hence, Trek once again brought about a sort of "revolution" in television, making syndicated first-run programming a viable, bankable alternative to network TV (remember, in 1984 it was PBS, NBC, CBS, ABC, and whatever locals you had...FOX came late in the year and started with a very paltry programming option...things were quite different just 25 years back).

 

[number6]

I will remind my esteemed friend Number 6 that, at that time, cable television was undergoing a huge expansion...and broadcast TV really felt it needed to compete.

Previously, the syndicated television market had been "stripped" reruns (meaning weekly shows repeated every weekday afternoon or evening) and game shows.

The TV industry itself was ready for a new model...and the "ORIGINAL" syndication trailblazer (TOS was the first "stripped" show with fewer than 100 episodes) was re-presenting itself in an updated format.

Hence, Trek once again brought about a sort of "revolution" in television, making syndicated first-run programming a viable, bankable alternative to network TV (remember, in 1984 it was PBS, NBC, CBS, ABC, and whatever locals you had...FOX came late in the year and started with a very paltry programming option...things were quite different just 25 years back).

All of which only serves to underscore just how risky it was back then. This was also a major reason why the original idea of Phase II being the cornerstone of a fourth network wasn't going to fly in 1977.

 

[Kryton]

I do remember thinking the idea of a "4th network" (especially after having seen others try and fail, e.g. DuMont) was ridiculous at the time. Oh, if only I'd been more prescient about entertainment options of the future!

 

[number6]

I do remember thinking the idea of a "4th network" (especially after having seen others try and fail, e.g. DuMont) was ridiculous at the time. Oh, if only I'd been more prescient about entertainment options of the future!

It wasn't rediculous. Paramount apparently couldn't figure out how to make it financially feasible and get stations to pick up all the hours of programming they wanted to do.

Then Star Wars became a runaway hit and they figured a Star Trek film would be the thing to do.

That is definitely one "what if" I would have like to see.

 

[trevanian]

I do remember thinking the idea of a "4th network" (especially after having seen others try and fail, e.g. DuMont) was ridiculous at the time. Oh, if only I'd been more prescient about entertainment options of the future!

It wasn't rediculous. Paramount apparently couldn't figure out how to make it financially feasible and get stations to pick up all the hours of programming they wanted to do.

Then Star Wars became a runaway hit and they figured a Star Trek film would be the thing to do.

No, Phase II only came into being AFTER Planet of Titans was cancelled, AFTER SW came out and hit huge (they figured they'd been beaten to the punch and gave up in favor of tv.) It wasn't till a few months later that it switched back to being a new feature release.

There were other modest fourth network bits around that time; if you look up operation primetime you'll probably see something about it, combining made for tv movies and miniseries. It was a pseudo network consisting of unaffiliated locals (the very stations that made TOS huge in syndication.)

I don't think there was a huge risk with PII ... there just wasn't the smarts (or the serious inclination) to push it through. Dangling the TOS syndication numbers at prospective stations would have been mighty enticing, plus demand for the product had only just peaked in 76 or so.

EDIT ADDON: something else to consider: if Lew Grade could get a second season for 1999 at its price (I remember 275,000 per hour, figuring that is dollars not pounds) just a year or two before, SOMEbody would have funded a half-season or more of TOS.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I do remember thinking the idea of a "4th network" (especially after having seen others try and fail, e.g. DuMont) was ridiculous at the time. Oh, if only I'd been more prescient about entertainment options of the future!

It wasn't rediculous. Paramount apparently couldn't figure out how to make it financially feasible and get stations to pick up all the hours of programming they wanted to do.

Then Star Wars became a runaway hit and they figured a Star Trek film would be the thing to do.

No, Phase II only came into being AFTER Planet of Titans was cancelled, AFTER SW came out and hit huge (they figured they'd been beaten to the punch and gave up in favor of tv.) It wasn't till a few months later that it switched back to being a new feature release.

There were other modest fourth network bits around that time; if you look up operation primetime you'll probably see something about it, combining made for tv movies and miniseries. It was a pseudo network consisting of unaffiliated locals (the very stations that made TOS huge in syndication.)

I don't think there was a huge risk with PII ... there just wasn't the smarts (or the serious inclination) to push it through. Dangling the TOS syndication numbers at prospective stations would have been mighty enticing, plus demand for the product had only just peaked in 76 or so.

EDIT ADDON: something else to consider: if Lew Grade could get a second season for 1999 at its price (I remember 275,000 per hour, figuring that is dollars not pounds) just a year or two before, SOMEbody would have funded a half-season or more of TOS.

All interesting, but I'm glad it died...Based on what I saw in season three of TOS, I think Phase 2 would have been TNG season one, mixed with season three of TOS...BAD BAD BAD...

Thank God smarter heads prevailed..

Rob

 

[Captain Robert April]

Maybe, maybe not. CBS was interested in picking up the show, provided Nimoy was still available (he'd already signed with Mission: Impossible, so that offer died quickly), and they might very well have injected enough new life into the show to get everyone back on their "A" game instead of updating their resumes in between writing assignments. It's even possible that Freiberger would've moved on and Justman might've finally been given his due and promoted to Producer.

Or, some unlucky landing party might've encounterd a bunch of talking carrots engaged in an armed rebellion against the Klingons.

Could've gone either way.