• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Pentagon preps soldier telepathy push

Lindley,

Are you saying that we have the ability to completely read people's minds already?

I'm saying that if you can detect a neural signal which is clean enough to show detectable, repeatable changes when someone focuses on a particular word, then there are algorithms which can be used to classify that signal as corresponding to one of several pre-defined words. Perhaps 50 or so words. I'd be surprised if they could do well on more than that; but a trained soldier could communicate a host of concepts to his men with even that much of a vocabulary.

It's not mind-reading, it's just pattern recognition. Train an engine on 100 inputs corresponding to "yes" or "no", and there's a good chance that given a 101st signal, you can correctly classify it as yes or no. You won't get it right all the time, but you'll do better than chance----and once you're better than chance, there are a host of algorithms you can employ at a higher-level to improve your results.

Depending on whether the classification algorithm is generative or discriminative, you might also be able to generate "typical" signals which correspond to a particular word. No telling whether they'd really be meaningful or not, though. If they were that *might* be a minor step towards mind control, but we're well away from that being a real problem I'll bet.

Now, the real problem here is (a) finding the particular signal which will provide sufficient discrimination between words, and (b) detecting that signal with a high enough SNR to be useful with a low-power portable device. Given that DARPA is funding this at all, I'm guessing someone has already demonstrated (a).
 
"What if he can read minds?"
"He'll be really mad when he gets to me!"

The Thing, 1951
 
I'm aware that virtually any technology can be used for 'foul purposes.' This one we're discussing though, has nothing but foul purposes. That's why I'm concerned. I don't want people in my head and you don't want to be there, either.

What about allowing the mute and disabled the opportunity to communicate?

Nothing but foul purposes? I think people are a lot better at finding "good" purposes for technology than you give us credit for. I thought about it for 10 seconds to come up with one example and the technology isn't even developed yet.

The technology would also be useful in helping humans communicate with machine interfaces. I know, I know, that's evil too.

This isn't just DARPA, there are hundreds of universities and organization working on all aspects of the human brain. Dream transmission, electronic telepathy, man-machine interface, human-network interface.... this kind of work goes back to neuroscientists poking exposed brains to figure out which part is responsible for what.

Like it or not, the brain is a biological machine with inputs, outputs, signals and gates. It's only a matter of time before we figure it out to the same level we've figured out man made electronic circuits. I'm not for limitless science, but I'm also not into using the "slippery slope" argument against everything. All you can do is create laws to govern its use.
 
I'm aware that virtually any technology can be used for 'foul purposes.' This one we're discussing though, has nothing but foul purposes. That's why I'm concerned. I don't want people in my head and you don't want to be there, either.

Incorrect.
 
"I'm filling my mind with so much hate that they can't read my thoughts!"
Captain Christopher Pike

As with cages, there's always a way.....
 
FordSVT,

Maybe the statement about it having "nothing" but foul purposes was a bit extreme. But in truth, the number of foul-purposes this technology could produce would still drastically outweigh any benefits -- even helping mute people speak. This technology could ultimately be used to violate the most basic privacy which people currently enjoy -- the ability to think whatever you want without being judged, criticized, or punished.

I do agree with you that laws must be made to regulate the use of this technology with severe penalties for those who violate these laws


CuttingEdge100
 
It's funny that the prevalent assumption is that this will be unbridled and unbidden communication without and fail-safes or opt-outs.

If history is any indicator, this will be used like a modern equivalent the cellphone.

Soldier One thinks, "Call Soldier Two."
Soldier Two hears, "Incoming Call from Soldier One, will you accept the charges?"

There's no reason to assume that this will be mass broadcast for anyone with a receiver to pick up, that would be inefficient as wasteful. Modern military comm protocol would likely still remain. The head of the unit would pass out the orders in a conference call, and receive orders from above.

Sure, they're thinking about that other stuff too, but that's farther down the road, they've got to get this potentially useful step out of the way first.
 
It's funny that the prevalent assumption is that this will be unbridled and unbidden communication without and fail-safes or opt-outs.

If history is any indicator, this will be used like a modern equivalent the cellphone.

While I agree, I think people are simply worried about the potential abuse of a mature technology by someone with criminal or hostile intentions. They're right to be concerned, but I think between laws and counter technology (if the government finds a way to read people's minds they'll also have a way to counter it) we can reap the rewards of most technologies without paying too high a price.

Simply put, almost any technology you can think of can be used for evil, society just has to deal with it one way or another.
 
And I quote ... there is a "Tendency to counteract: hunting in the same places." J. Cage
 
FordSVT,

I don't know how you could develop a counter-measure for such a "mind-reading" technology you're describing. Because if you could read the person's mind you'd also be able to know the counter measures they'd be thinking of...


CuttingEdge100
 
They've been doing this for decades, read the "The Montauk Experiment" series by Peter Moon and Preston Nichols if you really want to know some scary stuff!

Not really.

Montauk (for which the evidence is tenuous at best) was supposedly a series of experiments looking at things like whether natural telepathy, teleportation, etc.

This new project is about enabling 'telepathy' via technological means. It's nothing to do with the dark arts and is far more scientific in nature than the above, reports about which are little more than conspiracy theories run wild.
 
FordSVT,

I don't know how you could develop a counter-measure for such a "mind-reading" technology you're describing. Because if you could read the person's mind you'd also be able to know the counter measures they'd be thinking of...


CuttingEdge100

So, a tinfoil hat wouldn't work? :p
 
FordSVT,

I don't know how you could develop a counter-measure for such a "mind-reading" technology you're describing. Because if you could read the person's mind you'd also be able to know the counter measures they'd be thinking of...

CuttingEdge100

Simple. It's a signal being broadcast, there's ECMs for all kinds of recording and listening devices. They'd likely have a scrambler ready for the frequency long before the ability to send-receive the signal was up and running.
 
Overgeeked,

I suppose that's a good point. Still, if the technology existed to be able to "read a person's mind", it could be used for other applications. It would almost certainly end up as an interrogation tool for law enforcement.

I don't think that's such a good idea...
 
If such tech existed, yes. However, mind-reading in the general sense is not what's being researched here.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top