Pegg updates on script
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
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Yep. In Superman II, I remember the scene where Zod and the others started wreaking havoc on downtown Metropolis. Superman was in that battle, too, but he wasn't ignoring the destruction going on around him, he was actively saving people and taking on the villains, because they knew Superman would fight tooth and nail to keep even one person from being harmed. That was completely in line with his character, and one of the reasons why Superman has been my hero for 30 years of my life.
On the other hand, in MoS, we see people getting vaporized, buildings being blasted, and Superman's just zipping around, the people nothing more than background noise.
I'm a bit old fashioned, in that I prefer the "less is more" approach to action, and save the bigger stuff for the build up to the finale. When the Vengeance slammed into San Francisco harbor, my mind was racing as I watched those poor people hurrying to get out of the way. The tone of the scene was "This is awful! Look at this destruction, how can we stop it?" compared to MoS's scenes where the tone felt more like "Kewl! Watch this shit explode! Look at those people running like terrified ants! Zap!"
I know it's really too soon to say, but I really think the movie is in good hands. Pegg's a smart guy, he obviously has a feel for the characters of the franchise, and he's a bit of a nerd, so I think it will work out.
Well, when you have superpowered folk fighting in battles, shit's gonna get torn up. And with folks bearing the abilities of Supes or the Avengers, shit's gonna get epically destroyed.
Superman cares about the people on Earth, but when millions of lives are at stake, he's not going to have time to stop for every person who gets caught under a heavy piece of metal or stone when there are two or three of his own kind trying to conquer his adopted homeworld. If he doesn't stop Zod and crew, millions of lives will be lost. Needs of the many vs needs of the few.
MoS and Avengers portrayed their battles in the epic nature that they needed to be portrayed. Likely, the heroes would've preferred to be able to direct the battle away from the cities, but they are outnumbered, so directing the battle to less threatening environs is not an option.
To offset this whole "wow...that was epic!" level of destruction, that's why you have conversely realistic civilian characters who will decry the heroes' efforts in the aftermath, wondering "who is going to pay for all the destruction and accept responsibility for lives lost?". It is a realistic notion, but it also comes across as whiny and ungrateful.
The heroes have to count on the notion that the local emergency, law enforcement, (and whatever military services are called in) are going to do their best to get civilians out of harm's way. This was at least somewhat covered in The Avengers with Captain America giving evac and cordoning instructions to the police. Such an element could become a trope itself if it occurs every time an epic, city flattening battle breaks out in a superhero movie. "Oh, we have to make sure we show that the heroes are overtly concerned for the well being of every single human, dog, and kitty cat in the city with an affirming moment of civic redirection and evacuation. Now the battle can continue."
Personal opinions of a non-fan only. Your inner fanboy may vary.
Superman cares about the people on Earth, but when millions of lives are at stake, he's not going to have time to stop for every person who gets caught under a heavy piece of metal or stone when there are two or three of his own kind trying to conquer his adopted homeworld. If he doesn't stop Zod and crew, millions of lives will be lost. Needs of the many vs needs of the few.
MoS and Avengers portrayed their battles in the epic nature that they needed to be portrayed. Likely, the heroes would've preferred to be able to direct the battle away from the cities, but they are outnumbered, so directing the battle to less threatening environs is not an option.
To offset this whole "wow...that was epic!" level of destruction, that's why you have conversely realistic civilian characters who will decry the heroes' efforts in the aftermath, wondering "who is going to pay for all the destruction and accept responsibility for lives lost?". It is a realistic notion, but it also comes across as whiny and ungrateful.
The heroes have to count on the notion that the local emergency, law enforcement, (and whatever military services are called in) are going to do their best to get civilians out of harm's way. This was at least somewhat covered in The Avengers with Captain America giving evac and cordoning instructions to the police. Such an element could become a trope itself if it occurs every time an epic, city flattening battle breaks out in a superhero movie. "Oh, we have to make sure we show that the heroes are overtly concerned for the well being of every single human, dog, and kitty cat in the city with an affirming moment of civic redirection and evacuation. Now the battle can continue."
Personal opinions of a non-fan only. Your inner fanboy may vary.
What message did you take away from the film?
I personally enjoyed that moment of Cap giving the orders to the police. Very much highlights his humanity and focus.
I disagree a little that the heroes can't be concerned with the individual lives, but it is nice to see them allowing the military and emergency services do their job as well.
But, there is a balancing act between the two. It doesn't have to be the extreme "ignore the damage" and the "worry over every little thing." I think Avengers did a decent job with it, not too little and not too much of all the civilians.
MOS bothered me just due to the crashing through buildings thing, regardless of surrounding civilians.
Like I said, its a mixed bag.
ST ID annoyed me that it crashed the Vengeance in to San Francisco, but at least they acknowledged the impact it could have had on their way of life. I don't always mind the destruction, but it should matter.
STID is bookended by acts of mass destruction, starting with the bombing of the "archive'. That first event was certainly treated seriously by the characters.
Level of destruction limited by level of budget.
KIRK: Do you see what is happening, Spock?
SPOCK: I do indeed, Captain. It is ... spectacular.
KIRK: It's the most amazing thing I've ever seen. And wow, that thing that's started happening over there is, if anything, even more amazing.
SPOCK: This will probably be the most remarkable thing we ever witness, even if we live to be a thousand years old, which we certainly will, thanks to this thing that is happening.
KIRK: It's ... astounding!
With apologies to Graham Linehan.
Agreed. I enjoyed that moment as well. It not only allowed for the moment of humanity, but had just that pinch of humor needed to keep everything from being bleakly dark.
fireproof78 said:
That is something I appreciate too. The level of teamwork, of a sort, with those who might be less powerful, but nonetheless have important roles to play as well. The role of LE, EMS, and to some extent, the military, is to see to the safety of those the Avengers or Supes are trying to protect. The military might also provide some tactical support to the heroes, but given the nature of their opponents, that's like having someone with a BB gun trying to provide tactical support in tank warfare. The military would be better suited to aiding law enforcement and EMS in the evacuation and safety of civilians.
That's where I pointed out earlier that the heroes have to rely on law enforcement, EMS, and the military to handle the things that the heroes themselves cannot afford to take time out for. To some degree, the heroes have to hope that the ground services have done their jobs as quickly and efficiently as possible, because the heroes might actually need the environmental elements (such as tall, well constructed buildings) to provide the extra bit of damage they need to inflict to bring the bad guys to heel. For better or worse, a necessary evil.fireproof78 said:
fireproof78 said:
It's all for the spectacle. In real-life, such things might be a consideration even if suoerheroes existed. But, it's just movies. Big budget, big bang for the buck wow, pow, knock 'em, sock 'em, blow everything up good popcorn fun. Think of it as an oversized barroom brawl the gets so romanticized in some redneck movies....only thing missing is the banjo country music. We see antagonists smashing chairs and bottles over each other's heads, and after the brawl is over, everyone comes up none the worse for wear.
STID is bookended by acts of mass destruction, starting with the bombing of the "archive'. That first event was certainly treated seriously by the characters.
Level of destruction limited by level of budget.
KIRK: Do you see what is happening, Spock?
SPOCK: I do indeed, Captain. It is ... spectacular.
KIRK: It's the most amazing thing I've ever seen. And wow, that thing that's started happening over there is, if anything, even more amazing.
SPOCK: This will probably be the most remarkable thing we ever witness, even if we live to be a thousand years old, which we certainly will, thanks to this thing that is happening.
KIRK: It's ... astounding!
With apologies to Graham Linehan.
People are still whining about Superman's behaviour in Man of Steel?!
First. Day. On. The. Job. No more really needs be said.
And The Avengers were a team--not ONE GUY facing MANY OTHERS who were EQUALLY POWERFUL and BETTER TRAINED. Those idiotic aliens in The Avengers were nowhere nearly as threatening.
First. Day. On. The. Job. No more really needs be said.
And The Avengers were a team--not ONE GUY facing MANY OTHERS who were EQUALLY POWERFUL and BETTER TRAINED. Those idiotic aliens in The Avengers were nowhere nearly as threatening.
Well, for me, it was disconcerting not to see any sign of Starfleet in Earth orbit. There is a large spacedock over the northern hemisphere that mysteriously disappears for the battle. Each time I see the battle, I am thinking to myself, where is this station? where are the starships that would be at this station?
Then, there is the question of Earth's planetary defenses. What happen to them? They were mentioned in the first reboot film and totally not mentioned in its sequel.
I think it would have been more believable if the battle was fought not at Earth, but at a point somewhere between Earth and Qo'noS.
Sometimes, in movies, I have seen where cool overrides story sense. I believe cool is great when it goes with story sense.
Then, there is the question of Earth's planetary defenses. What happen to them? They were mentioned in the first reboot film and totally not mentioned in its sequel.
I think it would have been more believable if the battle was fought not at Earth, but at a point somewhere between Earth and Qo'noS.
Sometimes, in movies, I have seen where cool overrides story sense. I believe cool is great when it goes with story sense.
It is a Trek staple that, when times are tough and the chips are down, Starfleet is nowhere to be found and the Enterprise is the 'only ship in the quadrant/in range.' It happens in ST V, ST 2, Generations, etc, etc, etc.
This is not new.
This is not new.
Why would Starfleet interfere when its highest commander is no doubt telling it not to? The Vengeance is valiantly defending Earth from the evil Enterprise and winning hands down; other ships would just get in the way.
And space stations are way too small to be visible to the naked eye. You'd have to be right next to the STXI installation to see it. Heck, if Earth were protected by, say, ten thousand such fortresses, odds are that none would be visible in any of the battle scenes (most of which take place close to the Moon and thus far, far away from Earth).
Why would they get a mention? There's nothing to defend. Marcus needs those facilities like a cat needs pajamas, and Kirk has no access to them.
It's odd to the extreme that the warp chase ends right on Earth's doorstep - such precision would seem to indicate that Marcus was in complete control of the situation, but if he were, why allow Kirk to get that far? However, once there, the fight can proceed on Marcus' terms, because he is in control.
Timo Saloniemi
People are still whining about Superman's behaviour in Man of Steel?!
First. Day. On. The. Job. No more really needs be said.
And The Avengers were a team--not ONE GUY facing MANY OTHERS who were EQUALLY POWERFUL and BETTER TRAINED. Those idiotic aliens in The Avengers were nowhere nearly as threatening.
Eh, he lost me on the two separate occasions when the bad guys moved the battle away from the populated areas, and Superman brought it *back* to the center of town -- both in Smallville and Metropolis. First day on the job or not, he was more interested in pummeling than saving.
I do like how the humans stepped up their game, but plenty of that happened without Supes talking to them, either.
He hasn't yet become Superman, he's just the Man Of Steel.
Did anyone ever even call him Superman in MOS? IIRC, the only mention of anything having to do with the S word in MOS was when Louis asked what the "S" stood for and he responded that it isn't an S.
Did anyone ever even call him Superman in MOS? IIRC, the only mention of anything having to do with the S word in MOS was when Louis asked what the "S" stood for and he responded that it isn't an S.
IIRC, I think toward the very end of the movie, an Army officer says the name "Superman". His superior repeats the name as a question, and the subordinate replies: "It's what they're calling him, now, sir. "
Something to that effect.
Also, I believe Lois almost blurts that name out, but not quite. ... in a fashion similar to Margot Kidder from '78's Superman.
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