Pat Robertson Voodoo Doll!

[snakespeare]

Sympathetic magic isn't always about revenge. That's for Hollywood movies and pop culture. The mechanism is transference. Causal factors are transferred by the believer's mind to the sympathetic object. Then anything done to the object is believed to be done to the thing it represents. This is how they do sympathetic cures. So, oddly, if someone wanted to heal Pat Robertson of his sad mental conditition, they might do nice things to the doll, not just poke it with pins. There's no doubt in my mind that Pat Robertson is in severe mental anguish. Problem is, only changing the way he thinks can heal him, and he would have to choose to do that himself.

But clearly Pat Robertson does believe in sympathetic magic. He believes that you can perform an ancient African ritual that involves sacrificing a pig to make a pact with the devil. So he no doubt believes that voodoo dolls work. But he probably also believes that his Bible projects a protecting shield around him as long as he keeps repeating his mantra of devotion (Praise the Lord) to a being whom he believes is more powerful than the loa.

But what does he do when, in the privacy of his own space he wrestles with all his mistakes and weaknesses? Does he think that God will turn his back on him, too, and punish him for being weak? And does he then think God will take His protection away and leave him open to the influences of the loa? If so, that's a sad existence, in my book. He seems certain he is one of the 144000 who will be saved, but from that point of view, one slip and you're crispy critters for all eternity.

So maybe Pat Robertson should buy the doll to protect himself.

 

[nevermore]

Would it make any difference if it did?

Yes. If they worked then it's mean.

Of course it's mean, but I get the feeling that there are those who wouldn't care and would use the doll anyway.

And this may not mean anything to any of you, but Robertson's comments aren't as cut-and-dried as his haters seem to think they are. His claim that the Haitians signed a pact with the devil may be hyperbole in the extreme, but they are based in something that did happen: Dutty Boukman's ceremony over which he presided at Bois Caiman in 1791, in which animals were sacrificed and the blood drank. This may not have been a Satanic ceremony, but the overreaction to it would seem to have its roots in a long standing conflict between Christianity and African religious practices. So it is clear that Robertson didn't just make it up right then and there.

So, you're excusing him because he's engaging in a "long standing conflict between Christianity and African religious practices" rooted, undeniably, in bigotry and racism. Because he's just perpetuating that tradition, it makes it somehow better than if he'd just made it up out of whole cloth? Seriously?

Also, he didn't actually say that the earthquake was God's wrath, or that the Haitian people deserved what happened to them. He's called for prayer for them, and his organization is contributing to the Haitian relief effort.

You are incorrect, sir.

"They were under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon III, or whatever. And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, we will serve you if you'll get us free from the French. True story. And so, the devil said, okay it's a deal [...] ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other."

Anyway, the number of people in here who seem to completely miss the whole point of satire and conflate it with hypocrisy really blows my mind. How fucking depressing.

 

[melancholymecha]

the listing has been removed.

The fault that runs under Port-au-Prince is due to continental drift. The Caribbean plate is being compressed by the Atlantic plate. It has nothing to do with voodoo, the cosmic mind, the ocean levels, or television evangelism. It is simply nature.

my dad says its due to all the drilling done to the earth to make foundation for buildings. Somebody please make a voodoo doll of him.

 

[RJDiogenes]

the listing has been removed.

Did eBay take it down or did it... escape?

 

[bigdaddy]

Pat Robertson a few years back prayed for Supreme Court Judges to drop dead on TV so Bush could put in judges so abortion would be made illegal. He's an ass.

 

[snakespeare]

http://cgi.ebay.com/PAT-ROBERTSON-V...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c52bbc96f

edit:

Johnnyvoodoo was told in emails by eBay that he was violating policy by endorsing violence towards another person. He added a statement saying that it wasn't real and please not to hurt the real person. Same with the Rush Limbaugh doll. He had to say it was bubble gum, not real oxycotin.

Also, the charity he originally was going to send the money to refused it, so he is donating it directly.

 

[nevermore]

Looks lik the Red Cross asked to be removed as the recipient of the funds, so he re-started the auction with Habitat for Humanity Int'l as the recipient.

The charity that had been associated with the auction asked eBay to remove it, so now 100% of the profits from the sale of this doll will go to Habitat For Humanity. To learn more about the organization VISIT HERE....
http://www.habitat.org/

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

http://cgi.ebay.com/PAT-ROBERTSON-V...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c52bbc96f

edit:

Johnnyvoodoo was told in emails by eBay that he was violating policy by endorsing violence towards another person. He added a statement saying that it wasn't real and please not to hurt the real person. Same with the Rush Limbaugh doll. He had to say it was bubble gum, not real oxycotin.

Also, the charity he originally was going to send the money to refused it, so he is donating it directly.

I can understand their discomfort...regardless of what you said sympathetic magic is supposed to be about, that's not how most of our culture understands it, and most people would be thinking in terms of using such a thing as part of their revenge fantasies--whether that's culturally "correct" or not.

And that, I think, puts us spiritually on the same level as people like Robertson, who say things like that in the first place.

(I seem to recall St. John even getting in trouble with Jesus for asking him to please call down thunder on some people who were badmouthing Jesus. Maybe Robertson should've paid attention: human beings making those sorts of judgment does NOT fly. What God judges is his own business...not ours. We have NOTHING like the proper capacity for it.)

 

[iguana_tonante]

I can understand their discomfort...regardless of what you said sympathetic magic is supposed to be about, that's not how most of our culture understands it, and most people would be thinking in terms of using such a thing as part of their revenge fantasies--whether that's culturally "correct" or not.

And that, I think, puts us spiritually on the same level as people like Robertson, who say things like that in the first place.

Get a grip, people! Magic doesn't exist!

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Dude, I didn't say magic exists. Snakespeare was the one who described what the concept was supposed to be, and that's what I was replying to. But, my problem is that even though I do not accept its existence, what very much DOES is the spirit of revenge in people's hearts. People see this thing and they think "revenge." And that is not something I think is healthy for us at all and I DO think brooding on thoughts of revenge damages our spiritual health.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Dude, I didn't say magic exists. Snakespeare was the one who described what the concept was supposed to be, and that's what I was replying to. But, my problem is that even though I do not accept its existence, what very much DOES is the spirit of revenge in people's hearts. People see this thing and they think "revenge." And that is not something I think is healthy for us at all and I DO think brooding on thoughts of revenge damages our spiritual health.

It's still on the same level as making raspberry sounds at your TV set. You can talk about "spiritual health" all you want, but even if people are wishing bad things about him, it has no effect on reality. You put thinking and willing at the same level as speaking and acting. That's alarmingly close to crazy territory, mate.

Robertson is a jakass, and deserve every ounce of pwning directed at him.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Now I strongly suspect you are WILLFULLY misunderstanding.

The point is that if you are filling your mind with revenge fantasies, it doesn't matter one bit about the other person--the problem is that you are ruining yourself by indulging in that. And I will use the term "spiritual health" all I want, thank you very much. I'm not telling you that YOU have to believe it.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Now I strongly suspect you are WILLFULLY misunderstanding.

The point is that if you are filling your mind with revenge fantasies, it doesn't matter one bit about the other person--the problem is that you are ruining yourself by indulging in that.

And I say it's bullshit. Nobody is filling his mind with revenge fantasies. Robertson made an ass of himself (not surprisingly), and that doll was just making fun of him and his idiotic "Haiti = Voodoo = Devil". Trying to equate the two is just obfuscating the issue, and pretending to take the moral high ground while doing it ("I'm just worried about your spiritual health!"). Yeah, right.

And I will use the term "spiritual health" all I want, thank you very much. I'm not telling you that YOU have to believe it.

Since you see no difference between gloating over the death of hundreds of thousands and mocking the jackass who made that comment, I present that you should be much more worried about your own.

 

[snakespeare]

I agree with the Legate's surrogate daughter on this one, and I'm an atheist. I do agree that one's spiritual health is harmed by entertaining ideas of vengeance. This is precisely the sort of desire that results in self-inflicted suffering.

I also think that if the old carney believed that anything was going to harm his "soul" (let me clearly state I do not believe in souls), he wouldn't bilk old folks out of their social security checks. He's no more a Christian than I am. If there were a Hell, he would enter it as an officer. But there isn't.

Hell is, after all, just another revenge fantasy.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Assuming for a moment that anyone is actually considering vengeance against Pat Robertson, which is not at all a requirement for buying a stupid voodoo doll to donate to charity... How does having a simple thought of vengeance with no actual outlet - because (almost) everyone understands that voodoo dolls don't actually work - damage your spiritual health?

You're telling me that you guys have never for even a moment indulged a revenge fantasy (not necessarily involving killing or anything that drastic) against an asshole boss or a bully in school that you never had any intention of following through upon, because it was simply a passing thought? I have a hard time believing that. You've never quickly wished someone would get a bit of karmic payback or their comeuppance before realizing that would be wrong? C'mon.

How does it "damage you spiritually" unless you fixate on it and go from having a silly thought into planning to take action or actually even trying to follow through on it?

Trying to compare buying a stupid non-magical voodoo doll that donates to charity and mocks the backwards superstitious behavior of Pat Robertson to Robertson saying to his millions of followers that God is punishing millions of people in Haiti for the alleged actions of their ancestors 219 years ago which had nothing to do with making a pact with Satan is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. They aren't even remotely on the same scale. One advances actual hatred and bigotry and lies, the other advances mockery of hatred and bigotry and lies.

 

[snakespeare]

^Hyperbole aside, what you wrote in your last paragraph is not being disagreed with.

But what you wrote in your first three paragraphs seems to be based on a misreading. I did not claim to have achieved any personal perfection such that I harbor no vengeful thoughts. I doubt anybody did.

I simply stated my opinion that harboring vengeful thoughts is harmful to myself. You asked how, but I already explained it. I wrote that the desire for vengeance leads to self-inflicting suffering. If you would like me to explain that concept in more detail, I will. But it's an experiential thing, and if you haven't already gone down that road, you might not believe me.

Even so, if you believe that vengeful thoughts are harmless, then it's not my job to change you. I've got enough to do to live up to my own standards, which aren't even that high!

 

[I'm Kirk]

Pat is not saying God killed them, he is saying they brought it on themselves by making the pact if they did. In other words, you make a pact with the devil, then accept what he brings. God isn't the only power, there is an evil power also.

My stepdaughter went to Haiti on a missionary trip 10 years ago and they did dance around a camp fire chanting, trying to call up the demons so some of that pact may have been true.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Pat is not saying God killed them, he is saying they brought it on themselves by making the pact if they did. In other words, you make a pact with the devil, then accept what he brings. God isn't the only power, there is an evil power also.

My stepdaughter went to Haiti on a missionary trip 10 years ago and they did dance around a camp fire chanting, trying to call up the demons so some of that pact may have been true.

Every year upwards of 50,000 Americans gather in the desert of Nevada (already home to all manner of sin) to stand around while they burn a huge wooden effigy, a "Burning Man" if you will. God only knows what demons these servants of Satan are summoning out there. America should be punished for its wickedness.



Good to see your stepdaughter went there in the right spirit too, and not as someone looking down on the backwards natives for their primitive rituals.

It's fortunate that good Christian folk never do any chanting or gathering around campfires. That would be frightening!

^Hyperbole aside, what you wrote in your last paragraph is not being disagreed with.

But what you wrote in your first three paragraphs seems to be based on a misreading. I did not claim to have achieved any personal perfection such that I harbor no vengeful thoughts. I doubt anybody did.

I simply stated my opinion that harboring vengeful thoughts is harmful to myself. You asked how, but I already explained it. I wrote that the desire for vengeance leads to self-inflicting suffering. If you would like me to explain that concept in more detail, I will. But it's an experiential thing, and if you haven't already gone down that road, you might not believe me.

Even so, if you believe that vengeful thoughts are harmless, then it's not my job to change you. I've got enough to do to live up to my own standards, which aren't even that high!

There was no hyperbole in my post, and no, I don't think having a passing vengeful thought damages you "spiritually" like you have some of soul hit point counter. It's a perfectly natural and normal thought process and only becomes damaging when you obsess over it or seek to bring those fantasies to fruition. Simply thinking it and dismissing it as wrong doesn't damage you, and can in fact help your work through your anger.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Every year upwards of 50,000 Americans gather in the desert of Nevada (already home to all manner of sin) to stand around while they burn a huge wooden effigy, a "Burning Man" if you will. God only knows what demons these servants of Satan are summoning out there. America should be punished for its wickedness.

According to Pat and his ilk we should be; they're big on punishment.

 

[Bluesteelx]

Pat Robertson Voodoo Doll has been relisted on eBay. Ironically, eBay took it down because it could not be verified that Pat Robertson's soul actually exists. Here's the new eBay link. It's over $670 again!

http://cgi.ebay.com/PAT-ROBERTSON-VOODOO-DOLL-Proceeds-Go-To-Haiti-relief_W0QQitemZ190366726496