PASS-ID Act
- Thread starter CuttingEdge100
- Start date
What the words say is not up for debate, but what they mean most certainly is.
I don't need "qualifications" to dismiss out of hand some self-professed expert's words on an Star Trek BBS if what he's saying seems like nonsense to me. For all I know he's a 16 year old with a US Government teacher that went to college in the 60's. However, if he's got a PoliSci degree or a Juris Doctor, I'd be willing to listen a little more intently.
Until proven otherwise, he's just another dude on the internet, like me. As far as I am concerned he deserved the challenge when he said "What I'm doing is more along the lines of informing you. It's not a two-way argument of ideas. It's a one-way instruction" and tried to claim that his word is absolute.
I didn't call him an amateur. More accurately I requested that he show me that he's not an amateur.
Kinda seems like you did:
Without showing some credentials of your own, that quip falls pretty flat, as well. If you had expertise in the area, you could justify it, but if you're just another amateur chatting online, demanding someone ELSE'S credentials or threatening to ignore them is pretty silly. Because the same argument works in reverse, and has you demanding that people dismiss YOU out of hand for lack of credentials.
You see the problem?
Why not just debate the issues, rather than trying to make it a personal thing? If you feel he's wrong, show WHY instead of going after the poster's credentials.
I understand your point. Maybe my intention wasn't quite as clear as I thought it was. Allow me to apologize for the confusion.
My meaning was more like, "I have no time for arrogant grandstanding from high-minded amateurs, so show me that you aren't one".
I don't see how you could say that. I'm not the one that entered a debate, stated that there was no debate, and that this is one way instruction from me to... someone else. He did.
I'll debate, discuss, or argue with anyone who wants to meet me head on. But if they are going to act as if they are the authority and there is no debate to be had, then they had better show me why they are qualified to say so. Until then, he's just another opinionated internet know-it-all, just like me and everyone else.
Again, I'm not the one claiming authority of knowledge over someone else.
I do, but I think you don't.
I was. Then I was told that there was no debate to be had, and that I need to be instructed in how things are.
Can you tell that it really got my goat?
Yes, I admit it. He pissed me off. A good discussion is going, and someone comes in and says "this is not a debate. This is me teaching you how it is" is incredibly irritating when it's obvious that there is LOTS of room for discussion on the matter.
I'm not. He said he's an authority on the matter and he's here to teach me how it is. Ok, fine. Prove it.
I bet you can't guess what I am going to say now, can't you?
Anyway, let me apologize for letting my sense of offense get the better of me, and derailing what was a decent discussion of a political topic outside of TNZ. I hereby withdraw, as I'd hate to see the thread closed or moved.
Yes, if we could all get back on-topic, that would be fantastic.
Scout 101,
Couple of days I think...
Oh, c'mon don't be naive. It would be very difficult for many people with any form of employment to be able to traverse large distances back and forth to work...
JiNX-01,
Most people are the same
Agreed
I agree
Couple of days I think...
Oh, c'mon don't be naive. It would be very difficult for many people with any form of employment to be able to traverse large distances back and forth to work...
JiNX-01,
Most people are the same
Agreed
I agree
I'm sorry, but I'm still hung up on my earlier point, which would seem to negate any point you're trying to raise with regards to concern over the ID card and it's *possible* ability to be used as a tracking device:
Pretty much EVERYONE owns a cell phone at this point, and carries it with them 99% of the time. They're also all registered to us (and for fun, could probably be tracked further back to our billing information if the Government wanted access to celluar companies' records), and usually on. They connect to cell towers pretty much constantly, and (if desired) could be used to track just about anyone, at any time, very easily. It's a giant freaking transmitter, and YOU keep it charged up for them and on your person. And the equipment needed to track you already exists!
You're worried about the chance that an ID card, which isn't powered, MIGHT be able to track your movements IF the Government spends billions upon billions of dollars to create an entire network of receivers for this supposed ability?
If you didn't just crush your cellphone with your heel, no reason to continue the rant! Yes, you aren't legally required to carry your cell phone, but that's honestly a moot point, because almost everyone DOES, pretty much all the time. For all practical purposes, this device you're worried about already exists, and you LOVE having it...
Pretty much EVERYONE owns a cell phone at this point, and carries it with them 99% of the time. They're also all registered to us (and for fun, could probably be tracked further back to our billing information if the Government wanted access to celluar companies' records), and usually on. They connect to cell towers pretty much constantly, and (if desired) could be used to track just about anyone, at any time, very easily. It's a giant freaking transmitter, and YOU keep it charged up for them and on your person. And the equipment needed to track you already exists!
You're worried about the chance that an ID card, which isn't powered, MIGHT be able to track your movements IF the Government spends billions upon billions of dollars to create an entire network of receivers for this supposed ability?
If you didn't just crush your cellphone with your heel, no reason to continue the rant! Yes, you aren't legally required to carry your cell phone, but that's honestly a moot point, because almost everyone DOES, pretty much all the time. For all practical purposes, this device you're worried about already exists, and you LOVE having it...
Just as a note here, I used to work for AT&T. I had the ability to look up what cell site you were on when you made or received any call. I could have, without oversight, tracked your whereabouts since the time you opened your account. That's in addition to seeing who, when and how long you talked to people, who you sent text messages to, and when you access the internet from your cellphone.
And let me emphasize this, this wasn't even my primary job. This was just a neat little feature of one of the systems I used primarily for other things. This is information that's accessible to a large number of people in the company, again without much if any supervision.
STR,
And do you think that's really a good thing? Don't you think that kind of data should be deleted after 30 days?
And do you think that's really a good thing? Don't you think that kind of data should be deleted after 30 days?
That's not really the point. The point is that millions of people have willingly given away something to a private corporation that they would be outraged if the government collected. And there's very little security around that information. Every single rep you talk to in store, or on the phone, has access to this information, since it's the same system I used. They might not know it is there, but I don't think ignorance is a good defense strategy.
And you know what? It's a hell of a lot more likely you'll come across a crook looking to rob you (who can impersonate you, he doesn't have to work for the telecom) than the government is investigating you for a crime you didn't commit.
Furthermore, I don't think many people care about where they were 2 years ago. It can be used to track your current location, in a way that's a lot more efficient that a transponder chip in an ID card that can only be read from within a few yards, or hundreds of yards. You log into a computer, see where the phone is registered, even if it's across the country.
There's another restricted system that allows law enforcement to ping your phone for its GPS location, down to which part of which room in your house you're in. An ID card is amateur hour compared to what you've voluntarily tagged yourself with. And the Fed's aren't the people you should be worried about the most. Identity thieves and robbers are, followed by hackers that target poorly secured corporate servers, followed by private corporations that will sell your information for profit.
You've got your priorities messed up. There are REAL people out to get you RIGHT NOW. Hypothetical government actions with theoretical abuses of non existent systems is a distraction at best. Delusion at worst.
And you know what? It's a hell of a lot more likely you'll come across a crook looking to rob you (who can impersonate you, he doesn't have to work for the telecom) than the government is investigating you for a crime you didn't commit.
Furthermore, I don't think many people care about where they were 2 years ago. It can be used to track your current location, in a way that's a lot more efficient that a transponder chip in an ID card that can only be read from within a few yards, or hundreds of yards. You log into a computer, see where the phone is registered, even if it's across the country.
There's another restricted system that allows law enforcement to ping your phone for its GPS location, down to which part of which room in your house you're in. An ID card is amateur hour compared to what you've voluntarily tagged yourself with. And the Fed's aren't the people you should be worried about the most. Identity thieves and robbers are, followed by hackers that target poorly secured corporate servers, followed by private corporations that will sell your information for profit.
You've got your priorities messed up. There are REAL people out to get you RIGHT NOW. Hypothetical government actions with theoretical abuses of non existent systems is a distraction at best. Delusion at worst.
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That's the whole thing right there. All conspiracy-theory whacked out about a RFID chip that doesn't currently exists, that COULD be used to MAYBE track locations, IF they spent untold billions in building the receivers needed to pick up the signals, plus something to correlate them all.
While at the same time, we all carry around POWERED transmitters that have all that same information, but actively transmit it out to the world, and the resources are already in place to collect it.
But freak out over the ID card, THAT'S the problem?
While at the same time, we all carry around POWERED transmitters that have all that same information, but actively transmit it out to the world, and the resources are already in place to collect it.
But freak out over the ID card, THAT'S the problem?
Scout 101,
Actually, I haven't carried a cell-phone on me since I mentioned last
Actually, I haven't carried a cell-phone on me since I mentioned last
I speak for myself
Irrelevant. Cellphones are just one example of how much private industry knows about you. Your information is a commodity, sold from company to company to another. Do you know how many organizations have enough information on you to run a credit check? You don't. Do you know how well those companies guard their information? You can't.
While you're complaining to the government over how they want you to have a federally standardized drivers license and ID, somebody went behind you and stole your car and your wallet. Congratulations.
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