Paris Fans: Did you ever forgive Janeway?

[Nebusj]

exodus said:
How not one of their scientific or technological discoveries ever got used beyong their introduction.

Except the nanites. And metaphasic shielding. And remodulating the deflector array. And memory-wiping. And Moriarty. And Data's emotion chip. And warp bubbles as a way of lowering mass. And the Amagosa Laboratory. And ... well, I'm tired of trying to think of scientific and technological discoveries. Can't speak for anyone else, but I'll trust Timo can better me for a list of reused technologies.

 

[sevenstars]

Aw, sure I forgave her-- that's how she expressed affection.

 

[Deks]

We have to take one other thing into account.
Janeway in the first few seasons was a bit more harsher with disciplinary actions in comparison to later events.

What Paris did was a direct violation of the Prime Directive.
What his other crew mates did was not exactly in the same category.

the Doctor did betray the ship in 'Flesh and Blood', but at the same time it was his first true mistake he did intentionally.
And, Janeway was just as responsible for the events in Flesh and Blood like Doctor was because she was the one who gave the holographic technology to the Hirogen.

Torres was not JAneways favorite when she punched Carrey and until the very end when she got the opportunity to collaborate with her as Chakotay insisted, she changed her mind.

Both Tuvok and Torres pulled a stunt in an attempt to get Voyager 30 or 40 000 LY's closer to the Alpha Quadrant.
Tuvok was the one who took the blame for the most part, but the violation of the Prime Directive was not an issue there.
they violated Janeways orders and betrayed her trust.

What Paris did was much larger.

Even when Janeway bent the PD on some occasions, it was endorsed by the crew because their lives were basically at stake.
What Paris did on his own was not endorsed by the crew or the captain.
Sure she felt similar like he did, but had no intention of breaking the PD.

 

[Faldor]

Janeway was a schizophrenic and changed her world views depending on who was writing that week.

It was contrived to have Paris locked up for a month when others got off with less for doing worse

but

it did result in one of the few really good episodes and the fact they didnt promote him again by the end of the episode gives it merit.

 

[LeadHead]

I liked that there was no reset button on the episode. I think if they had actually made something with the demotion, it would have gone over better. They just did it and the payoff of it was a quick scene in a season finale. If they had done a great episode where Paris really earns the promotion, I think it would have been great. Sadly we got gems like "Tsunkatse" and "Spirit Folk."

 

[Guy Gardener]

I love it how when Tom got his pips back, that she rubbed Harry's nose in it that he was never ever going to promoted under her command.

 

[Cyke101]

Vonstadt said:
I was fine with his punishment, he deserved what he got for violating orders of his Captian and the Alien Government. Even if he was in the right to do so morally.

However my issue with it was the writers of the show never seemed to give the Janeway character the consistency to be believable at times. As a stand alone episode, my cousin who was in the navy thought he got off easy :P and it showed though Janeway has to maintain order, she sorta agreeed with him un offcially (since his punishement could've been worse)

Plus It was nice to see VOY leave him at that rank too for a while...as opposed to the series' reset button.

The story was fun, its always been one of my favorites, and Janeway simply never benifitted from the writers.

I still like her for the potentional she should have had :P

Agreed agreed agreed agreed. Good episode, weird Janeway, fitting punishment, 'take THAT, Paris', continuity, et all.

 

[RainCrystal]

Yes I wasn't a big fan of Tom Paris but that episode got me thinking and I don't know why Janeway was so annoyed with him, as he was trying to help those people on the planet.

Guy Gardener= "I love it how when Tom got his pips back, that she rubbed Harry's nose in it that he was never ever going to promoted under her command."

Yes why did she do that when Harry (who was a good boy most of the time) got absolutely nothing? Also on the episode when Harry had a fling with an alien woman, Janeway was extremely harsh on him IMO, considering that plenty of inter-species relationships goes on. Janeway herself had a couple of short-term boyfriends, one of them wore a black uniform and he hated Telepaths.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You have to remember in Harry's case, the generational ship they met up with said no boinking. It took a while of negotiating before they got into he good stead where Kathryn could talk to them.

Kathryn is the mind of Voyager making decisions. her crew acting up against her is like a motor neural disease in an individual... Kathyrn said they were to abide by the Prime Directive in... Why didn't they call this 40 days? That would have been an excellent "waterish" bible reference? BUt no one asked for their help, so they weren't going to give it. Tom gave the finger to these merpoeple and his Captain by pulling the end around on her dicision making proccess... It's not completely like Iraq since the guy in charge of America, despite defying Congress who are the only people who have the authority to declare War, was the person in the position to tell the mud hut backwad sand bunnies of iraq that they were too childish to manage their own affairs ... Sanctimonious much? However it's exactly like how the American Secretary of Defense facilitated the invasion of Hawaii deposing the standing royal family 120 years ago much to he chagrin of the President who didn't want Hawaii, and tried to unsuccessfully give it back a couple years later.

The Prime Directive is about allowing the savages to be proud, so that in a thousand years they can use their own oil deposits which haven't been raped by manifest destiny probably by that point. No matter how easy it is, you don't take candy from babies.

 

[Malcom]

RainCrystal said:
Yes I wasn't a big fan of Tom Paris but that episode got me thinking and I don't know why Janeway was so annoyed with him, as he was trying to help those people on the planet.

The crew of Voyager was asked specifically not to interfere. Paris disobeyed their request and Janeway's orders. Double whammy. Thirty days.

I remember when my dad was a sub captain telling a sailor who had, again, been AWOL "your ass is grass and I'm the lawnmower!"

 

[Guy Gardener]

Note how Tom Paris handled 30 days easy and Paris Hilton couldn't handle 30 hours with out whining like a little vitch and begging for a mulligan?

 

[Luckyflux]

30 days in prison is a rough thing! No conjecule (sp?) visit from B'Elanna right? 30 days to just hang out, do pushups and stare at the stars....eff that. That would cause me to lose what little sanity I had left.

 

[od0_ital]

^

The brig doesn't have windows, so he wouldn't even see stars.

 

[Guy Gardener]

conjugal visits aside... thirty days of minding where his hands might stray off too that the footage of his self love during incarceration might not end up circulating through the crews personal PADDs like a modern day Youtube meme or be transformed into a short movie for the Christmas party or a talent pageant?

 

[Kieran]

Janeway gave Paris a direct (and verbal) order to return to Voyager... he refused and did what he did.

Janeway was completely correct in busting Paris down a notch as well as the 30 days in the can.

 

[KiraDax]

Point being, he wasn't the first person to disobey one of her direct orders and/or undermine an alien government's rules. Torres, (Seska), and Tuvok, anyone?

While sticking him in a cell and busting him down provided good creative opportunity for Paris Angst (and I suspect that's all it was about for the writers), it wasn't fair by comparison.

I generally try to tack it up to Janeway's increasing insanity at that point, but it still doesn't explain why Chakotay and Tuvok didn't at least pretend to care about such a glaring example of hypocrisy and call her on it.