Yes, we all know Kurtzman et. al. thinks we're idiots and unintelligent.
Last edited:
"paramount should quit streaming"
- Thread starter Jarvisimo
- Start date
No, I first read about this in the early 2000s, it was the reasoning for making ENT a prequel as well. It was pretty widely believed that Star Trek had disappeared up it's own asshole by then, legions of insular fanboys didn't help matters.
The funny thing about this is that prequels are the most "up its own asshole" thing you can do! You are limited to predetermined outcomes in the universe and that only gets harder to deal with when you include legacy characters, and for an audience to have the deepest possible level of engagement of the storyline they will need to know what all of this is meant to set up. The fanboys were INSANE during ENT and they still have some weird takes now with SNW.
TNG to DS9 to VOY had increasing levels of "up its own asshole," with TNG having the least and VOY having the most. TNG required you to know things like "Starfleet" and "Enterprise," and the rest you could either figure out and didn't matter much. DS9 needed you to know about Wolf 359, Bajorans, Cardassians, O'Brien, Worf, and some of the wider aspects of the Federation, but you could still figure most of it out if you din't watch TNG. VOY needed you to know about the quadrants and their alignments, the Dominion War, the Maquis, and the events surrounding it, but again, you could get by. In all three cases its easier than prequels.
Now, SNW is a very well done and accessible prequel and I love it so much, but its appeal is definitionally insular. It's well done! But it still has to deal with the attendant issues with prequels. A franchise that is waaaaaaaaay up its own ass? Star Wars. It's crazy.
The longer it goes on the more this happens with a franchise. Star Wars is ridiculous and self-referential but Trek is just as bad.
Doctor Who is pretty ridiculous. It has a hard time moving on from Classic.
I've given up on that show. It isn't fun at all to watch. It's just a drudgery.
Gave up during Capaldi. It was last good with the Ponds.
The River Song arc was one of the most creative things that show produced (From the 2005- era). I gave up on it after the first season of Whitiker, and it wasn't Whitiker's fault. I was cheering for a woman doctor, but the writing let that season down.
The Clare storyline was the first that really didn’t work for me. It was like a stretched out Baker story. And then Capaldi’s Doctor was cruel. The actor had come off from playing a villain in Musketeers. He was much better in that show.
my wife and I are in the exact same boat. We wanted to love Capaldi and Whitaker but the writing did them no favors.
I do love Capaldi but I gave up on the writing.
There were a few good moments. In reading your post, I actually went back to watch what is probably my favorite Capaldi Doctor Moment:
That speech is probably they most humanistic, the biggest heart's cry of humanity all in one moment. Capaldi nails it and when he says "I forgive you" I tear up. So many people yearn for that.
Clara was my major turn off. I have tried to watch it on and off since, but I find myself less interested in the post reboot stuff and drawn back to the classic run.
Rather like Star Trek really - the nostalgia factor has far more pull than trying to watch the new stuff. P+ has just exacerbated this, especially now LDS (which was the only new Trek I actually went out if my way to watch on release) has been pulled from prime. Maybe I am just getting old.
Rather like Star Trek really - the nostalgia factor has far more pull than trying to watch the new stuff. P+ has just exacerbated this, especially now LDS (which was the only new Trek I actually went out if my way to watch on release) has been pulled from prime. Maybe I am just getting old.
Some Classic Who is good. Some hasn’t aged well. The stuff filmed outside looks the best. The studio lighting is a bit much in a lot of Who.
Star Trek is best when it doesn’t come across as a PSA. I liked season 1 of SNW. I can’t get into season 2.
So, this thought percolated in my mind and it's a funny old test. Now, I don't think the idea that there great pull towards older vs. newer means one is greater than the other. At least in my experience, I am more likely to go back to shows I enjoy, like TOS, or DS9, or non-Trek like MASH, or Golden Girls. That doesn't mean I like something less; just that something that is familiar will draw me easier. It's easier; I don't think it automatically makes on better than the other, other than familiarity.
Just a random musing on my part.
You might like "Under the Cloak of War."
NuWho and modern Trek have fallen into similar traps.
In Classic Who, the Tardis was just a plot device to put the characters into interesting settings. Once they arrived in Victorian London or the Twenty-Third Galactic Federation, time travel stopped being relevant to the plot. You can count on one hand the number of times Classic Who had a plot that involved manipulating history. But the modern series has embraced the timey-wimey nonsense to the point that you need a flow chart to understand some seasons.
With Classic Trek, the focus was usually on one planet or one spaceship. Doomsday machines and space amoebas were rare occurrences, and even then they were often limited in scope (i.e., the Whale Probe didn't care about the rest of the Federation). The TNG era was more willing to play with galaxy spanning threats like the Borg and Dominion, but those were treated as special cases. With modern Trek, however, the writers believe you can't have a season long arc unless the entire Federation is under threat at the minimum.
Both franchises would benefit from focusing on smaller scale stories where the plot is about competent heroes solving problems that affect interesting characters.
Have you watched the Sarah Jane Adventures? This is the closest new Doctor Who got to Classic.
I’d like smaller stories too. That’s why I like From so much. And X-Files was good in that regard too with the monster of the week.
Similar threads
