Paramount going ahead with ST4 according to Engage

[Malaika]

yeah, don't worry maybe next time instead of talking about useless and clearly off topic things such as the characters and their dynamics, I might join in some endless debate about the correct shape of some parts of the enterprise, or the bridge looking like the apple store. We could also speculate about Quinto's wig in trek 4 and wonder if it's going to look decent next time. I guess making long posts about these things is more fitting for a trek fanboard.

 

[TRON JA307020]

The "KHAN!" scene has grown on me. I liked Roberto Orci's explanation of it on Mission Log. He basically said that in TWOK, Spock's death scene marked the end of Spock and Kirk's friendship. But that the Kelvin Timeline Kirk death scene marked the beginning of their friendship, their first realization that they needed each other. With that in mind, I find the scene very effective.

I can totally see why it's divisive. I just fall on the positive side of that dividing line.

Still that Quinto delivered "Khaaaaaaaaaan" scream was really bad and a cheesy remake.

 

[gerbil]

Still that Quinto delivered "Khaaaaaaaaaan" scream was really bad and a cheesy remake.

It's better after repeated viewings.

 

[Firebird]

It's better after repeated viewings.

When I first saw it in the theater, I couldn't help myself from laughing. On each successive viewing, it's become rather cringeworthy. In the context of Shatner's performance, his "KHAN" was a performance to play into Khan's ego. For Quinto, it was supposed to be a genuine expression of anger. However, the amount of emotion behind making Spock yell like that was never quite earned, IMHO. Kirk and Spock haven't had a multi-decade friendship at that point (hell, barely a multi-year friendship) - they're closer to being work colleagues than friends at that stage. That yell is supposed to work purely on it being a callback, but it fails to be justified within the context of the film.

 

[fireproof78]

Jesus H. Cthulhu! Why can't there be discussions about ST4 on this board without them being hijacked for pages with waaaaay to long posts about the S/U relationship?

I mean, I like them as a pair not only but also because it is one of the most visible changes to Prime Trek (and the Kelvin Timeline need more of them while stll embracing what made TOS great), but come on! This is ridiculous

Care to suggest a topic then? Hopefullly we have more news soon, but given Beyond came out this year, so I doubt we'll get more news until much later on.

When I first saw it in the theater, I couldn't help myself from laughing. On each successive viewing, it's become rather cringeworthy. In the context of Shatner's performance, his "KHAN" was a performance to play into Khan's ego. For Quinto, it was supposed to be a genuine expression of anger. However, the amount of emotion behind making Spock yell like that was never quite earned, IMHO. Kirk and Spock haven't had a multi-decade friendship at that point (hell, barely a multi-year friendship) - they're closer to being work colleagues than friends at that stage. That yell is supposed to work purely on it being a callback, but it fails to be justified within the context of the film.

I go back and forth. I don't think the yell is purely a callback, but an expression of Spock's pent up rage, hurt, sadness and grief at so much death in his life. I never found it cringeworthy, mostly because, if I'm watching the film, then I am immersed in the moment of Kirk dying. That moment works so well for me that I follow right in to Spock's rage with little more than a, "Oh, that's from TWOK." By then, we're on to the Khan chase, and I'm back in the film.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In the context of Shatner's performance, his "KHAN" was a performance to play into Khan's ego.

I admit that I never once considered that Kirk's anger was faked. After all these years...

 

[Smellmet]

I admit that I never once considered that Kirk's anger was faked. After all these years...

I still don't think it is. Look at his face in the run up to the scream. He ain't happy. He'd just had his ship attacked and heavily damaged with loss of life, found a load of bloody corpses with their throat cut, his ex and child were missing possibly dead, just witnessed a fellow officer commit suicide and one of his close colleagues had collapsed and an alien creature bloodily emerge from his ear, his estranged son had just attacked him with a knife, and his greatest enemy had just stolen a domesday device, and was taunting him about it.

Regardless of what he had up his sleeve (and there was no guarantee it would work) Khan had the upper hand and at the moment of the scream, he had every reason to lose his shit. The only subterfuge I got from the chain of events was that he didn't tell the rest of his crew, only Spock was in on it, which when you think about it is a bit out of order considering what everyone was going through. It wouldn't have hurt Kirk to disclose his plan to the rest of them considering they were contemplating being trapped there indefinitely.

 

[gerbil]

Yeah, I don't believe Kirk's scream was meant to be an act.

I think Spock's scream was a reflection of his rage and frustration with so much death and hostility. Kirk had saved him at the beginning and Spock realizes why. It's a complete reversal of McCoy's comment that Spock would have simply let Kirk die in the volcano.

 

[I am not Spock]

if 4 is indeed the last one with this cast, the last Abramsverse film, I can deal with that. 4 Pierce Brosnan Bond movies, 4 JJTrek films. They had a decent run .

 

[Firebird]

if 4 is indeed the last one with this cast, the last Abramsverse film, I can deal with that. 4 Pierce Brosnan Bond movies, 4 JJTrek films. They had a decent run .

I just hope JJ4 doesn't turn out to be as bad as Die Another Day.

 

[Khan 2.0]

I just hope JJ4 doesn't turn out to be as bad as Die Another Day.

Or Batman&Robin/Superman 4

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I trust JJ.

 

[M-Red]

I don't know why nu4 would be the last film with this crew. The cast is still young, and the franchise is still the most profitable item in Paramount's portfolio.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ IIRC, the cast are only under contract for one more film. And since they're starting to become more famous, I doubt they will want to be shackled to Trek for the rest of their careers. They probably all want to move on and do other things.

Of course, recasting is always an option, but if that starts to happen they will probably reboot the whole thing again. And this time they will likely make it a complete and total reboot, not link it to a previous timeline like with Spock Prime.

 

[donners22]

I don't know why nu4 would be the last film with this crew. The cast is still young, and the franchise is still the most profitable item in Paramount's portfolio.

I'd have thought Mission Impossible would have Trek well and truly covered on that front.

Beyond made $343 million worldwide on a $185 million budget; the last Mission Impossible film made $682 million on a $150 million budget.

Transformers would be way ahead as well - the last Transformers film made over a billion dollars.

 

[wayoung]

^ IIRC, the cast are only under contract for one more film. And since they're starting to become more famous,

Are they, though? Outside of Saldana and Pegg, have any of their careers improved from when they were cast?

Pine's had no blockbuster sucess, his other franchise films bombed. Jack Ryan failed so bad he was recast with Jim from the Office. Wonder Woman has him as the love interest but is set in the past - he's essentially DC's Agent Carter. Maybe a couple more cameos in the films as an old man, but he's not in a leading role in future films.

Quinto has had nothing outside of Trek since he quit AHS beyond the failed attempt to reboot Hitman.

Urban had Dredd, which failed financially and won't be getting a sequel, plus a cancelled TV show.

Pegg and Saldana are the biggest names in the films and while they've continued to be successful they aren't really any bigger than they were seven years ago. Pegg continues to be the side kick in MI films and star and low to mid budget comedies - which themselves haven't been doing so well since the Cornetto Trilogy ended. And Saldana's went from the lead in action films like Columbiana to spending the next decade in green make up or blue CGI as the love interest in GOTG and Avatar sequels. So those two are busy and successful but not really more so than they were before Trek.

They're all objectively more successful than the TOS or TNG crews, but they’re not exactly superstars.

 

[Khan 2.0]

I'd have thought Mission Impossible would have Trek well and truly covered on that front.

Beyond made $343 million worldwide on a $185 million budget; the last Mission Impossible film made $682 million on a $150 million budget.

Transformers would be way ahead as well - the last Transformers film made over a billion dollars.

Thinking about it the MI and JJ Trek movies mirror each other somewhat critically and box office (apt considering Trek/MIs long shared history). First 'reboot/sequel' film - big hit critically/box office (457m/385m). Second more action film - less critically/more box office (546/457). Third more like the TV show- improved critically (some say best)/lowest box office (397/343). But then the 4th MI many consider the best one and was the biggest box office of all by far (694m)

So maybe Trek 4 will be the best/biggest one yet

 

[Malaika]

I just hope JJ4 doesn't turn out to be as bad as Die Another Day.

I trust JJ.

we still refer to this trek as JJ's trek but, at this point, how much power he is going to really have creatively? Unless he directs or participates to writing..
listening to Lin, it seems he (JJ) gave him complete creative freedom to do what he wanted and I guess it's going to be the same for the next director too.
I just hope we get someone who is inspired by this trek and likes these characters a bit. A tos fan? not required for me and, actually, at this point maybe it's more a hindrance than anything else. I'd rather have the next director be someone who talks about these characters and gets basic narrative differences between these and the old ones, instead of talking about the characters like a kid who hadn't done his homework well enough and he repeats what is written in some summaries online (e.g., still puzzled over how Lin described the Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic in the reboot and their supposed 'roles'. Did he even WATCH the first movies??)

The reboot is stuck in nostalgia and pandering to haters and tos elitists, they wasted most of its potential and lost track alienating a lot of the fans of this trek. If we don't get someone who cares about THIS trek and wants to give it a chance, I don't have a lot of hope.

 

[Relayer1]

I just hope JJ4 doesn't turn out to be as bad as Die Another Day.

I see no reason to believe that it won't be.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I don't know why nu4 would be the last film with this crew. The cast is still young, and the franchise is still the most profitable item in Paramount's portfolio.

Rising paydays for the actors, most likely. Chris Pine made something like $600,000 for ST'09 and around $6,000,000 for Beyond. Patrick Stewart took something like $15,000,000 for the fourth TNG movie, Nemesis.

I'm very curious what Paramount has planned for Trek beyond ST4 (that said, I'd be more than hapy if they just made movies with this cast forever)