Paramount going ahead with ST4 according to Engage

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Plus, those weapons still had propulsion systems, which could generate a pretty good bang upon impact.

The warheads are clearly still in the torpedoes but the fuel has been removed to make room for the bodies.

Wait a minute here! Firebird says that the torpedoes had their warheads removed and their propulsion intact! And gerbil says that the torpedoes had their fuel removed and their warheads intact! So which is it?????

Klingons see Federation technology impacting their planet, you really think they're gonna ask questions or do an investigation?

Klingons captured Starfleet enemy personnel and… did nothing! Klingons saw a Starfleet enemy ship off Kronos and… did nothing! Klingons saw a two enemy ships fighting each other and… still did nothing! Did you see them going to war or at least responding somehow? In that movie or the next?

Like I already said, that "script" is so full of holes that you can fly the Enterprise inside them. And no, not the small TOS Enterprise but the huge JJprise.

 

[BillJ]

Why?

Plot.

In the grandest of Star Trek traditions!

 

[BillJ]

Klingons captured Starfleet enemy personnel and… did nothing! Klingons saw a Starfleet enemy ship off Kronos and… did nothing! Klingons saw a two enemy ships fighting each other and… still did nothing! Did you see them going to war or at least responding somehow? In that movie or the next?

But not in their space.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

But not in their space.

Kirk and crew were on Kronos!
The Enterprise was in range of Kronos armed with WMDs aimed at Kronos!
And since when do Klingons stop on such minor technicalities? The Klingons we know are feared warriors not analytical wussies!

 

[BillJ]

Kirk and crew were on Kronos!

With no Earth or Starfleet markings. The film was very clear on this.

The Enterprise was in range of Kronos armed with WMDs aimed at Kronos!

The Klingons may have known that the Enterprise was near their space, but they still aren't stupid. These likely aren't based on the Space Moron Klingons from TNG on that wanted to make war at the drop of a hat.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

These likely aren't based on the Space Moron Klingons from TNG on that wanted to make war at the drop of a hat.

Tell that to Admiral Marcus. His whole plan was based around the assumption that the Klingons will retaliate against the warp-disabled Enterprise!!!

 

[BillJ]

Tell that to Admiral Marcus. His whole plan was based around the assumption that the Klingons will retaliate against the warp-disabled Enterprise!!!

Right. After it dropped seventy-two projectiles on their heads.

 

[gerbil]

Also, the Klingons had just lost 40-odd ships a few months before when the Narada escaped. They may not have been in any position to start a war. Marcus's intentions were to provoke the Klingons by making the Enterprise a sitting duck after firing weapons at Kronos. Marcus never intended Kirk to go to Kronos.

What are being pointed out aren't "plot holes." They're just in-universe actions that haven't been shown on screen.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Right. After it dropped seventy-two projectiles on their heads.

How would the Enterprise launch seventy-two projectiles on the Klingons if Admiral Marcus already knew they were duds?????

MARCUS: He put those people in those torpedoes. And I simply didn't want to burden you with knowing what was inside of them.

 

[donners22]

How would the Enterprise launch seventy-two projectiles on the Klingons if Admiral Marcus already knew they were duds?????

The same way it launched the torpedo containing Spock.

Point it in the right direction, and let momentum and gravity do the rest. Objects in motion tend to stay in motion, and all that.

And rather than coming to a gentle rest on the planet, as that one inexplicably did (and if you want plot holes and bad science, II and III contain more than ID ever did), even a torpedo without a warhead is going to make a decent impact on a planet after colliding with it at speed - just like a meteorite on Earth.

 

[wayoung]

^ that's something Trek has always had to pretend isn't a thing. Really, they have the tech to make anything a world destroying weapon. BAM. Entire planet destroyed at the cost of,an engine. Or, hell, a tractor beam reversed and space junk. No need for red matter, genesis devices.

Really, those long range torpedo warheads must have been weaker than our modern day explosives if 72 of them travelling at warp would only damage a small unpopulated area.

 

[Firebird]

How would the Enterprise launch seventy-two projectiles on the Klingons if Admiral Marcus already knew they were duds?????

A dud typically refers to the payload, not the drive system, of a torpedo.

 

[Mudd]

Disney buying Trek would be like the ultimate dream at this point...

Yeah, if one has a bottomless appetite for sausage.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

even a torpedo without a warhead is going to make a decent impact on a planet after colliding with it at speed

A dud typically refers to the payload, not the drive system, of a torpedo.

Again you're claiming contradictory things. Donner22 implies that the torpedoes were lacking warheads and Firebird suggests that the torpedoes were lacking drive systems. So which is it?

 

[Firebird]

Again you're claiming contradictory things. Donner22 implies that the torpedoes were lacking warheads and Firebird suggests that the torpedoes were lacking drive systems. So which is it?

You're misreading what I'm saying. I never said the torpedoes didn't have drive systems. I'm agreeing they didn't have an explosive payload. You're conflating the two.

 

[urbandefault]

I'd have to watch it again, but I'm pretty sure the torpedoes were missing the fuel cells. I don't remember Marcus being aware that the torpedoes had been tampered with, or that they held Khan's people.

I do remember that they were specified as being exempt from scans upon loading to Enterprise, and that's why Scotty quit.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

So, after two whole pages of discussion we're still not sure if Admiral Marcus knew that Khan's people were inside the weapons, if the weapons lacked warheads or fuel or drive systems, what exactly was Admiral Marcus' plan and why didn't the Klingons respond the way Marcus told us they would. And that's not counting Khan changing sides every now and then…

Great script!

 

[Nerys Myk]

So, after two whole pages of discussion we're still not sure if Admiral Marcus knew that Khan's people were inside the weapons, if the weapons lacked warheads or fuel or drive systems, what exactly was Admiral Marcus' plan and why didn't the Klingons respond the way Marcus told us they would. And that's not counting Khan changing sides every now and then…

Great script!

Dialog says they have warheads but the fuel containers have been removed. Dialog also indicates Marcus knew Khan's people were in the torpedoes.

 

[urbandefault]

So, after two whole pages of discussion we're still not sure if Admiral Marcus knew that Khan's people were inside the weapons, if the weapons lacked warheads or fuel or drive systems, what exactly was Admiral Marcus' plan and why didn't the Klingons respond the way Marcus told us they would. And that's not counting Khan changing sides every now and then…

Great script!

Dude, take a breath.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Dude, take a breath.

OK, I'll do that!


Back to the discussion of ST: (1)4… which was last talked about in… page 8?