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Pandora's Floating Mountains - Cool But Totally Unrealistic!

Cameron has said in interviews that the floating mountains certainly are not realistic. According to calculations a physicist friend had done for him, magnetic forces capable of levitating superconducting masses of that size would literally pull the iron out of your blood.

But hey, its still looked cool. :) And its not the first SciFi film to have something unrealistic of that nature...
 
Cameron has said in interviews that the floating mountains certainly are not realistic. According to calculations a physicist friend had done for him, magnetic forces capable of levitating superconducting masses of that size would literally pull the iron out of your blood.

But hey, its still looked cool. :) And its not the first SciFi film to have something unrealistic of that nature...

A lot of Sci-Fi has a fantastical and improbable nature to it.
 
When did we stop accepting the "fiction" part of sci-fi and started wanting a real explaination/solution to everything?
Probably around the time that science fiction was first recognized as a genre. I'm not sure exactly when that was, but Hugo Gernsback coined the term "scientifiction" in 1926. Honestly, SF fans have ALWAYS wanted to examine and/or nitpick what was or wasn't scientifically plausible in their stories.
I know I was very young back in the 70's but I just don't remember anybody questioning how a Lightsaber works, for example. We just accepted it did.

I think now we're erasing the whole escapist atmostphere sci-fi used to have by wanting a real world explaination for everything.
Sometimes it's nice to believe in magic.
 
If I began nitpicking every implausibility in science fiction then I wouldn't be a fan of science fiction.
 
Dear Television and movies:

Please be more realistic.
Like the monotony and unsatisfactory nature of real life.
Yes. That is what I want.

Regards.
 
Good fiction should be internally consistent. That doesn't mean it has to be consistent with what we understand in the real world. That's a big difference some people seem to forget.

Science fiction is in an interesting place because it often relies on what one author called "black boxes": inventions that function mysteriously in order to enable the story's premise in the first place. In a lot of sci-fi stories, this is something like FTL or anti-gravity devices.

For some people, they want science fiction to be pure speculation based ONLY on what we know is scientifically plausible. They want true speculative fiction. It seems in recent years, the number of sci-fi fans who want only speculative fiction has increased. This may have something to do with us living in a world that is increasingly mature in the area of science: in other words, the more we learn, the more we also begin to think /isn't/ possible by deduction.

But, in my view, there is a significant difference between general science fiction and speculative fiction, and there's a reason why sci-fi that isn't "hard" sci-fi still isn't just fantasy fiction even if it is about "impossible" things.

General science fiction isn't necessarily about what is plausible within real-world rules. Rather, it's about the consequences of a particular device or concept, that generally speaking, comes from a scientific view of the universe - and it doesn't have to be /our/ universe with our rules. Typically, such sci-fi guesses at how the world or lives might be radically changed by this device or idea. It follows the consequences of this change ruthlessly, and not primarily for romantic purposes. (It's not about magic for the sake of being magical and mysterious.)

Now, the better science fiction stories have a nice hack for all this: they merely invent a /new/ principle that we have not /yet/ discovered in our world. These stories do not /violate/ what we already know directly. That's what poorly written sci-fi does. The clever stories say "yes, the expected rules are just like real life... except when Particle X is introduced, which radically changes the equation". And Particle X isn't treated as magic, able to do unexplainable things (unless solving the unexplainable mystery is part of the story premise!). An order of rational science is created in-universe around Particle X.

Most sci-fi is of the "invent a black box" type instead of the hard "NASA could really build it" variety.

Okay, okay, off the long-winded tangent, the one point about Avatar is that even if Cameron himself laughs and says the floaty mountains are an exaggeration, the story does create its own black box: the Unobtainium. Since its properties as a "hot" superconductor are not the same as an existing real-world material, it has a license to do whatever. It's pretty consistent in the film. Despite the calculations of Cameron's friend there is plenty of space inside the black box to hand-wave and say that the Unobtanium does bizarre things in mass quantities. (Honestly, if Cameron was clever he would retcon this posthaste, before writing the next film.)
 
Okay, okay, off the long-winded tangent, the one point about Avatar is that even if Cameron himself laughs and says the floaty mountains are an exaggeration, the story does create its own black box: the Unobtainium. Since its properties as a "hot" superconductor are not the same as an existing real-world material, it has a license to do whatever. It's pretty consistent in the film. Despite the calculations of Cameron's friend there is plenty of space inside the black box to hand-wave and say that the Unobtanium does bizarre things in mass quantities. (Honestly, if Cameron was clever he would retcon this posthaste, before writing the next film.)

No need to retcon... While it may not be explicitly stated that Unobtanium makes the mountains float, it is pretty clearly indicated through various supporting evidence.

Otherwise I agree with your lengthy post that I did not quote - well argued.
 
I likes me my "hard science fiction," and I likes me my "sci fi" too, and an occasional dollop of fantasy. Avatar is kind of a big blend of all three.
 
All the other science problems in this movie and you are worried about the floating mountains??

I've been watching Star Trek for four decades - if magic science and bad science bothered me that much in fiction, I'd not have made it past the first season.
 
I didnt mind the mountains as much as the breathing masks that they all had to wear. That was just crazy.
 
When did we stop accepting the "fiction" part of sci-fi and started wanting a real explaination/solution to everything?
Probably around the time that science fiction was first recognized as a genre. I'm not sure exactly when that was, but Hugo Gernsback coined the term "scientifiction" in 1926. Honestly, SF fans have ALWAYS wanted to examine and/or nitpick what was or wasn't scientifically plausible in their stories.
I know I was very young back in the 70's but I just don't remember anybody questioning how a Lightsaber works, for example. We just accepted it did.

There was tons of speculation and writing about how lightsabers worked back in the day. I'm talking ad nauseum speculation.

I think now we're erasing the whole escapist atmostphere sci-fi used to have by wanting a real world explaination for everything.
Sometimes it's nice to believe in magic.

Sure it is - which is why fantasy is a popular genre too. Science fiction has traditionally been subdivided a number of ways, one of which is "hard" and "soft" SF. Hard SF is very technically oriented, extrapolating from what is known of real science to create highly detailed thoughts about what would work in a future or alien setting. Soft SF takes much greater liberties with real science and spins what are essentially fantasy scenarios with SF trappings such as alien planets that are glowy rainforests with floating mountains. Avatar is plainly soft SF, with little concern for real science.
 
I didnt mind the mountains as much as the breathing masks that they all had to wear. That was just crazy.

WTH???? Because we all know that all planets in the universe with life will have atmospheres that are compatible with humans? :rolleyes: You need to watch less Star Trek. :)
 
Hell, I thought the masks were the most reasonable nod to real science in the whole film!
 
Hell, I thought the masks were the most reasonable nod to real science in the whole film!

I also liked seeing a planet with a toxic atmosphere for once in a high budget Sci-Fi movie (except for "Alien").

The only problem I have with the masks is that they are masks and not environmental suits. We know that the human skin also needs air otherwise its cells would start dying, so long term exposure to Pandora's toxic atmosphere should be dangerous even with a breathing mask.

I hate to be the guy to point those things and spoil the illusion. Sorry. :)
 
Hell, I thought the masks were the most reasonable nod to real science in the whole film!

I also liked seeing a planet with a toxic atmosphere for once in a high budget Sci-Fi movie (except for "Alien").

The only problem I have with the masks is that they are masks and not environmental suits. We know that the human skin also needs air otherwise its cells would start dying, so long term exposure to Pandora's toxic atmosphere should be dangerous even with a breathing mask.

I hate to be the guy to point those things and spoil the illusion. Sorry. :)

Except that Avatar supporting materials show that Pandora's atmosphere isn't that different from ours. Just much more carbon dioxide, plus additional trace gasses. Otherwise it is a Nitrogen/Oxygen mix, just as ours. Masks would suffice.
 
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