Spoilers Palpatine's clones

[valkyrie013]

Threw up Spoilers due to Bad Batch.

So had a question on the whole clone/strandcast thing.
So let me get the timing right.
In 4ABY Vader dumped him into the pit of doom, and he died. His spirit wondered to Exegol where a strandcast was made for him to inhabit, but it didn't take, and that body started to deteriorate.
Now it was said it may have taken some time for him to get to Exegol, so lets say 5ABY he inhabited his clone. So, from what I've read is that his clone body started to deteriorate pretty fast..
But it wasn't till 30 years latter that he made himself known in Rise of Skywaker.

So my question is.. did he inhabit the same clone the entire 30 years? Hooked up to that apparatus that pumped chemicals in him to keep him alive in that same one?

We also know he done Strand casts, but i'm a bit confused on timing and the like? Does a strand cast basically start as an adult? or is it born a child and naturaly grows? If so, the what is the timeline for Snoke? or Dathan?
If Dathan was "Born" as a child and grew up, had to be atleast 20 years before he could sire Rey at 15 ABY, Wookiepeida says 12BBY? Snoke looked alot older so was he decanted earlier than that??

The timeline will probably get cleaned up by Filoni in some upcoming series. probably.

 

[Set Harth]

Now it was said it may have taken some time for him to get to Exegol, so lets say 5ABY he inhabited his clone.

Where was this said (other than in the Dark Empire Sourcebook)? In the TROS novel it seemed like it was immediate:

Spoiler

So the falling, dying Emperor called on all the dark power of the Force to thrust his consciousness far, far away to a secret place he had been preparing. His body was dead, an empty vessel, long before it found the bottom of the shaft, and his mind jolted to new awareness in a new body - a painful one, a temporary one.

 

[Reverend]

I'm of the opinion that Vader dumped him into the pit of doom, he died, and his energy became one with the cosmic force, annihilating his individuality just like (almost) everyone else, and that the thing on Exegol was just the latest in a long line of genetic constructs imprinted with a copy of Palpatine's mind. Either by cold technological means, or by way of the Sith throne, which may or may not be a magiks imbued artefact not unlike Nightsister alter which we saw do basically the same thing.

As for why they keep rotting falling apart; probably because of all the crazy Sith alchemical "dark science" they keep subjecting the clones to in a futile attempt to boost the m-count to either match or exceed the original. It's entirely possible just a normal clone would have worked just fine, provided the Palpatine personality clone would accept a host body with a "normal" M-Count . . . which of could it would not under any circumstance.

For me; that's the only way I can reconcile what we saw with the way Lucas thought of how the force worked, and I'm inclined to take his point of view on the topic every time. Likely, so will Filoni.

ETA: As for what a strand-cast is; it just seems to be a catch-all term for any bespoke genetic construct, whether designed from scratch in every detail, or an altered clone of an original organism. They've never defined is specifically, but my instinct says it applies to any artificially grown being that's had it's DNA strands tinkered with for one purpose or another.

 

[Tuskin38]

For me; that's the only way I can reconcile what we saw with the way Lucas thought of how the force worked, and I'm inclined to take his point of view on the topic every time. Likely, so will Filoni.

I don't see how the actual canonical events contradict Lucas's views on the force.

 

[David cgc]

I don't see how the actual canonical events contradict Lucas's views on the force.

I think the key problem is that embracing the Dark Side is totally incompatible with becoming a Force Ghost (or, more pertinently, with your individual identity being preserved within the larger Force after the death of the physical body). If Palpatine's soul can hop from one body to another across space, that implies his identity maintained itself separate of his living body for some amount of time, which isn't supposed to be possible for someone as egomaniacal as he was. Or even someone with a perfectly normal or even lower-than-average amount of ego, for that matter.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I think the key problem is that embracing the Dark Side is totally incompatible with becoming a Force Ghost (or, more pertinently, with your individual identity being preserved within the larger Force after the death of the physical body). If Palpatine's soul can hop from one body to another across space, that implies his identity maintained itself separate of his living body for some amount of time, which isn't supposed to be possible for someone as egomaniacal as he was. Or even someone with a perfectly normal or even lower-than-average amount of ego, for that matter.

The point of the last movie is that he was going to take over Rey's Body, and that every Sith master has always been him, since the beginning of time. All he needs is for some one to strike him down in anger, and he's got them as a car to drive around in for 50 years.

Personally I'm calling bullshit.

REAL Palpatine did not go to the moon of Endor.

A Rebel battle fleet and a mostly trained Jedi one fifth his age standing a Death Star, a platform infamous for blowing up?

Way too dangerous.

Send a clone.

He was never there.

All that shit in the senate?

Too fricking boring!

Send a clone.

He was never there.

Manipulating a 12 year old girl?

Bullshit.

Manipulating a frog to give him unlimited power?

Bullshit.

Overseeing the separatists?

No, that was probably him.

If he had dozens if not hundreds of clones running around pretending to be the senator, chancellor, emperor, Sideous, or no one at all special hiding in the shadows, the clones don't have to be very good or look much like him because of replicative fading, so long as they are loyal.

 

[fireproof78]

I think the key problem is that embracing the Dark Side is totally incompatible with becoming a Force Ghost (or, more pertinently, with your individual identity being preserved within the larger Force after the death of the physical body). If Palpatine's soul can hop from one body to another across space, that implies his identity maintained itself separate of his living body for some amount of time, which isn't supposed to be possible for someone as egomaniacal as he was. Or even someone with a perfectly normal or even lower-than-average amount of ego, for that matter.

Which is why I don't think he's a Force ghost. He binds himself to the mortal plane to keep achieving power, rejecting what a Jedi might call a more natural existence.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It would stand to reason that the form that Sith use to travel from one body to another has a material or energy component that makes them not at one with the Force the way Jedi Force ghosts are.

 

[Xerxes82]

Threw up Spoilers due to Bad Batch.

So had a question on the whole clone/strandcast thing.

So, I don't think these aren't the same thing. Or at least, they are implied to not be the same thing. I don't know that it's been explicitly laid out anywhere.

Clones are exactly that. Identical duplications of existing DNA. Barring intentional modifications, experimental failure, degradation due to volume, or random mutation which would be to be expected in a large enough sample size, they are basically genetically identical to their source (see the Jango clones of the GAR). Even Omega is basically said to be a Jango clone who was altered to be a female expression of the same genetics. Her base DNA is functionally the same as her brothers, save for the edits that altered her gender.

The way they use the word strandcast seems to give it a different meaning. Dathan (Palpatine's "son" and Rey's father) provides a potentially interesting case. In this reading he is NOT A CLONE of Palpatine in the same sense that the GAR troopers are clones of Jango. He's made from Palpatine's DNA, but it has been reconfigured in a more meaningful way. Dathan being considered Palp's son is, I think, meant to be taken in a somewhat more literal way. If you did a genetic test on Dathan, you'd be able to tell he's directly related to Palpatine, but the implication seems to be that his DNA is not identical to him. It would read closer to the parent/child or sibling relationship.

My reading is that a strandcast is a genetically engineered person, created by effectively "remixing" a donor's DNA, rather than a duplicated DNA clone. It's like having a child born from a single parent

 

[Tuskin38]

Her base DNA is functionally the same as her brothers, save for the edits that altered her gender.

Tech said she was a pure Gen 1 clone.
So something other than DNA alteration must have cause her to be 'born' biologically female.

 

[fireproof78]

Tech said she was a pure clone.
So something other than DNA alteration must have cause her to be 'born' biologically female.

*squints in Dr. Wong.*

 

[Tuskin38]

It's Star Wars. Maybe midichlorians did it idk
Maybe something went wrong in the cloning process and a chromosome shifted.

 

[JD]

Manipulating a 12 year old girl?

Bullshit.

Manipulating a frog to give him unlimited power?

Bullshit.

i got all the other references, but I'm drawing blank on these two. What are they referring to?

 

[fireproof78]

i got all the other references, but I'm drawing blank on these two. What are they referring to?

Omegs and Yoda

 

[Set Harth]

Padme, not Omega.

 

[fireproof78]

Padme, not Omega.

I thought Padme was 14?

 

[Guy Gardener]

I say Padme is 12, and I can forget that she is supposed to be a sex symbol they want me to gag for, which was iffy when I was younger, but quite creepy now.

Jarjar is a huge frog.

 

[Ithekro]

Queen Amidala was 14 when she first meets Anakin Skywalker (Portman was 16 at the time).
The next time they meet she is 24 and a senator for Naboo. (Portman was 18 at the time)

 

[Tuskin38]

Queen Amidala was 14 when she first meets Anakin Skywalker

I learned that listening to the Weird Al parody back in the day.

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I still have the CD somewhere. I remember driving my dad crazy playing the song over and over (I was 9).

 

[Guy Gardener]

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Although according to this song which is all but canon, 14 year old Padme was set up for a nearly 30 Ewan McGreggor to take down.