P/C run amok...

[Amelie]

Posted by WillsBabe:

Posted by Amelie:
I never thought the relationship with a commanding officer thing was a problem either. If you ask me, more problems would come with R/T than with P/C.

I know this is a P/C thread, but I enjoyed reading your comments about R/T and think I agree with what you are saying.

Thanks!

I always thoguht that the commanding officer thing was never a big problem for P/C. They are good together in that capactiy. Thee is some disagreement betwen the two but I have a feelnig that Crusher is like that with everyone.

In the Pegasus, Picard says he chose Will because he disagreed with his captain that time. He wants a crew that doesn't just blindly follow orders. So maybe he even liked Beverly disagreeing with him in some way.

Alos, he never seemed to hesitate to send Beverly on dangerous missions. She was never mad at him for placing her in danger, in fact she semed to want to go on the most dangerous missions. In "The High Ground" she asked not to be beamed up the danger notwithstanding and Picard DID NOT beam her up.

That's why I compared it with R/T. Those two should NEVER be abord the same vessel as a married couple. He worries constantly and does put his feelnigs for her above their roles. One look at Nemesis will show you that. She will get special treatment above the rest of the crew.

But people continue to say that the commanding officer thing is a problem for P/C. Well I can't see that at all.

 

[Naraht]

Posted by WillsBabe:
I know this is a P/C thread, but I enjoyed reading your comments about R/T and think I agree with what you are saying.

You know, we really should have an R/T thread too. I could post that extensive R/T story which I wrote when I was eight... my first TNG fanfiction, I think.

 

[mon capitaine]

Posted by Amelie:
Well WHY does ANYONE see Picard making a move on Beverly as betraying Jack?

Well I think its because Picard does himself.

In Tapestry he admits to feeling guilty about having feelings towards his best friends wife even before his death, and that he'd vowed to never reveal those feelings because it would be a betrayal (I could look up the actual words but give me some slack here). Now I admit that over time must people would have relented over this but Picard is awfully keen on sticking to the moral high ground. A promise is a promise to Picard even if it's one made only to himself. Given that he mentions it in Tapestry I'd guess it's still uppermost in his mind.

Secondly I think Picard has some issues with the nature of Jack's death. Had he been some mutual friend offering his condolences then things may have run a bit more smoothly but we know he was there when Jack died. We know it was under his command and that there is some suggestion that it was his orders or he at least holds some responsibility for what happened. In E@F he's concerned Beverly shouldn't have to serve with an officer who’s going to be a constant reminder of her husband's death. In The Bonding we see Wesley admit he was harbouring some resentment to Picard and there's every reason for Picard to suppose Bev might do to. In Picard's mind he blew any chance of happiness by being involved in Jack's death, he assumed she wouldn't even want to see him and nobly slipped out of her life for nine years.

We see the relationship between them grow, but we never see them talk about Jack. He's dead, but he haunts any prospect of future happiness.

 

[mon capitaine]

Damn! What happened? Did I kill the thread? Was my post so definitive?


Caught Allegiance yesterday. Was mildly amused during Riker's little mutiny soiree that nobody asked Cr Crusher what she meant by having a most unusual evening with the captain. I guess they didn't want to go there but if I was Riker I'd have wanted all the details.

Perhaps the crew think the two of them are having discreet sex but don't want to pry?

 

[Amelie]

Posted by mon capitaine:
Damn! What happened? Did I kill the thread? Was my post so definitive?


Caught Allegiance yesterday. Was mildly amused during Riker's little mutiny soiree that nobody asked Cr Crusher what she meant by having a most unusual evening with the captain. I guess they didn't want to go there but if I was Riker I'd have wanted all the details.

Perhaps the crew think the two of them are having discreet sex but don't want to pry?

Nope, your post wasn't so definitive to me anyway. I don't agree at all. I can't beleive so many people including TPTB place so much emphasis on the ghost of Jack Crusher whilst not donig much with the characthers they can do somehting with. Jack had what 3 appearances (one as a corpse), I don't really care about him. The past is the past.....

So I for one just couldn't be bothered to post back.

But yeah, Allegiance is one of my favourite episodes. Maybe they didn't want to pry indeed ......!

 

[mon capitaine]

Posted by Amelie:
So I for one just couldn't be bothered to post back.

I'm crushed, you know that don't you?

 

[Naraht]

Well, I didn't consider your post definitive either, but I was away all weekend, so there.

Posted by mon capitaine:
We see the relationship between them grow, but we never see them talk about Jack. He's dead, but he haunts any prospect of future happiness.

Indeed. While many P/Cers, like Amelie, say that Jack isn't too important to them, you can tell that he is important to the mythology of the relationship by how many P/C stories he appears in. And how many of them result in gratuitous character assasination.

Especially in season one the spectre of Jack's death seems to hover overhead. Wesley brings it up, Remmick brings it up, but it never is dealt with openly between Jean-Luc and Beverly. Even after Walker's death, which would seem to be a natural time. In Violations, it seems almost cruel of Beverly to tease Jean-Luc about exploring his memories, simply because so many of their shared memories must be sad ones.

However, it doesn't surprise me that Beverly would rather see the whole issue buried. In The Bonding, she even tries to brush off discussing it with Wesley, asking him to help that boy deal with his mother's death when, to me, she seems to shy off from engaging with her own son.

Neither Jean-Luc nor Beverly are particularly good at dealing with emotional issues... neither are TPTB, come to think of it. So we didn't get any closure about Jack, even in Attached when it seemed like a logical time. Perhaps though TPTB feared, as P/Cers hoped, that with closure achieved, HOT SEX would soon follow?

 

[Gold Grizzly]

Posted by Naraht:
Even after Walker's death, which would seem to be a natural time.

They kind of played a cruel joke in that episode of course, because having established Walker as an old buddy of Picard's (as well as both Crushers) in the opening stages, they then kill him off and he's never mentioned after the episode. It was a slightly cynical way to add some early drama to the episode.

 

[Naraht]

^^^ It also establishes the pattern where everyone who's ever been a close friend of Picard's ends up DYING horribly. Ah well...

 

[mon capitaine]

^ Not necessarily horribly. Keel probably knew nothing about it.

Maybe it's more than they are destined to die in front of Picard?

 

[Naraht]

Keel, as I understand it, was killed in cold blood along with the rest of his crew by one of his own officers, who had been taken over by a disgusting parasite intent upon galactic domination.

All right, the death itself would have been quick, but it still seems horrible enough to me...

 

[mon capitaine]

Posted by Naraht:
Keel, as I understand it, was killed in cold blood along with the rest of his crew by one of his own officers, who had been taken over by a disgusting parasite intent upon galactic domination.

Meh. These things happen.



Actually we don't really know what happened there do we? The Parasites didn't strike me as the suicide bomber type. Maybe Keel heroically sacrificed his ship? I'm sure any friend of Picards is bound to be ever so Noble about this sort of thing.

 

[mrs_sideshow_bob]

Picard has that whole Jessica Fletcher vibe of bad things happening to people he knows The guy never gets a break; Jack, Keel, his professor friend, you could go as far as to say Data in that movie which must not be mentioned (SE Extras do seem good though, Bev's scene at the end is BACK) :thumbsup:

 

[mon capitaine]

Posted by mrs_sideshow_bob:
Nemesis SE Extras do seem good though, Bev's scene at the end is BACK :thumbsup:

I'm not sure this is a or a . When exactly will the last dance be? We're not going to see it anytime soon.

 

[Gold Grizzly]

I think that it was just meant as a vague, open ended offer really.

 

[mon capitaine]

^ No wonder she's been so rubbish at attracting Picard or anyone else if she's just going to be vague and open-ended about that sort of thing.

 

[Gold Grizzly]

It is kind of consistent with "Attached" and other episodes though.

 

[mrs_sideshow_bob]

I get what you're all saying about the nature of the scene (all that last dance stuff) but frankly I'll take any movie screen time for Bev no matter what she's doing.

 

[mon capitaine]

Indulge me for a bit here: wouldn't Bev be more intellectually suited to someone like Riker? I don't mean to tread on the imzadi thing or to particularly dismiss P/C, but don't they have far more in common than her and Picard? Plus whereas all her little 'come on' signals seem to flat with with Picard, surely Riker has demonstrated that a woman only needs to look at him in Ten-forward for him to steam over in full seduction mode?

 

[Gold Grizzly]

Well, I guess that it's not always as simple as having things in common. She could be attracted to Picard's intellect even if she's not quite on that level herself.