P/C run amok...

[Naraht]

Posted by mon capitaine:
Still. Does Gates tend to sit down in other projects do you know? I just have this sneaky idea that ex-dancers probably have no knees and rush at the opportunity to take the weight off now and again.

Sadly, I haven't seen enough projects of hers to be able to tell. However, she's always been more of an actress... I don't think that she ever worked professionally just as a dancer. From what I've seen of her resume, she acted in plays, did some choreography, and taught acting at Brandeis. So we have no real reason to worry about the state of her knees.

 

[mon capitaine]

Fair enough. So first breakfast was in Q-Pid? Seems a lot later than I'd have imagined.

 

[Naraht]

Definitely in Q-Pid, although Beverly says that "the captain and I often share morning tea," which suggests that it's been going on for a little while already. You have to remember that Wesley had left home only eleven episodes previously, so it stands to reason that until then, she might have been having breakfast with her son.

And what's happened to your avatar?

 

[mon capitaine]

^ It's a screencap of the strangest thing I ever saw in TNG.

 

[Gold Grizzly]

Perhaps a P/P shipper has been identified ...

 

[Vasquez Rocks]

^ That sounds so wrong - "a P/P shipper".

 

[mon capitaine]

^ And it is. Don't worry, she'll be out of here by the weekend.

 

[mon capitaine]

Naraht Another top Bev Av I see. Does this herald the next section? Action Bev. She shoots, she scores? I do hope so.

 

[Naraht]

Ooh, ActionBev!

I'm not sure there would be that many exhibits, though. The only times I can think that she ever holds a phaser are in Datalore (protecting Wesley), and in BOBW. As for hand to hand, even Uhura got more of that than her.

And as for scoring... well, this is a P/C thread after all.

What I've actually been thinking about is AGT. Do you have a theory on how they did end up in that future? Did Bev really dump him for her own starship? And was it before or after Jean-Luc was diagnosed with Irumodic? Etctera, etcetera...

 

[mon capitaine]

I'll have to give it some thought if you don't want my usual flippancy and putting all the blame on Bev. Given how comfortable (i.e. in a rut) they've become, I also wonder how they ever managed to get married in the first place. It would take some impressive catalyst to shift them into anything more.

I'm still ing at Die Pulaski Die BTW.

 

[Naraht]

Posted by mon capitaine:
I'm still ing at Die Pulaski Die BTW.

Why thanks.

As for the topic, I could never figure out quite how the timestreams in AGT worked. The fact that Beverly discovered Jean-Luc's Irumodic syndrome was obviously a turning point for her (think of that kiss in the ready room), but she only discovered it after he'd been into the future. So can we say that the future was pre-determined already? If you see what I mean? That's really the only thing I can think of that could have shaken them out of their complacency.

 

[mon capitaine]

Don't know about the pre-determinism angle.I'm not keen on it as a rule. I found it charming the first time I came across the notion, but then every time travel story seems to do it and everone turns out to be their own great-grandfather.

But she changed her mind because he was going to be ill? Hmm. Having rejected him at the end of Attached, the thought of his vulnerability convinces her they should be together? Now there's a thought. What would she get out of that? Unless she just wants someone to look after (no real previous evidence), I'm guessing the attraction would be the safety of the relationship. He's not going to run off and leave her if he's terribly ill. It sounds cynical but I don't mean it to be. There can a glorious intensity in a doomed relationship.

But it fails anyway. That's quite depressing. If we don't want to repeat AGT but want them to get together we'll need another catalyst.

 

[Naraht]

Posted by mon capitaine:
But she changed her mind because he was going to be ill? Hmm. Having rejected him at the end of Attached, the thought of his vulnerability convinces her they should be together? Now there's a thought. What would she get out of that? Unless she just wants someone to look after (no real previous evidence), I'm guessing the attraction would be the safety of the relationship. He's not going to run off and leave her if he's terribly ill. It sounds cynical but I don't mean it to be. There can a glorious intensity in a doomed relationship.

It's not so much that she would want to be in a relationship with someone who's doomed to suffer from an awful degenerative disease. I think that it has to do with the fact that Beverly, while serving on the Enterprise, has made what she thinks is the safe choice with regards to Jean-Luc: she has him around, she has breakfast with him, but she doesn't want to risk her feelings or get too close to him. She feels like she can have it both ways (which incidentally is playing havoc with Jean-Luc's feelings). The Irumodic syndrome might have jolted her out of her complacency, made her realise that this couldn't last forever. If I were her, I would have reflected at that point, "when he's gone, is this what I want to remember? Never having had the courage to get closer?" She doesn't want to have those regrets, so she decides to make the effort to change things. That's how I would make that scenario psychologically plausible, anyhow. But I certainly don't think that it's a desirable way for them to get together.

But it fails anyway. That's quite depressing. If we don't want to repeat AGT but want them to get together we'll need another catalyst.

Yes, it is depressing! The problem, basically, is that the writers have got the P/C relationship into a corner. After seven years serving together, what could happen to them that hasn't happened already? It drives fanfic writers into all sorts of bizarre scenarios which I won't go into. As for a more realistic version... we'll have to keep thinking...

 

[mon capitaine]

I can't help thinking that Picard would only go along with this if he thought he wasn't going to get sick. His reaction in AGT was to say that his future wasn't cast in stone (I agree, no reason to think it had to happen), but if he'd thought otherwise, surely he'd have gone all noble and cold and rejected her?

 

[Naraht]

Probably true.

The basic problem with the two of them is that they think and worry too much. If, at the end of Attached, he had just kissed her, rather than entering into a theoretical discussion about whether it was now time to explore their feelings, then things might have gone quite differently.

Somehow Jack strikes me as having been the sort of person who would have just got on with things rather than sitting around theorizing about them. And I think that's what Beverly needs.

 

[mon capitaine]

Posted by Naraht:
Somehow Jack strikes me as having been the sort of person who would have just got on with things rather than sitting around theorizing about them. And I think that's what Beverly needs.

Do we have enough to go on about Jack to know that? Sending gag-gifts by way of a marriage proposal might not be all that dynamic. Knocking her up is the only positive thing we know he's done?

 

[Naraht]

Point taken. But Jack certainly managed to get Beverly 1) to marry him and 2) pregnant. (In what order, I'm not going to speculate!). Can you tell me what Picard's done? Anything? I didn't think so.

 

[kozara]

Posted by Naraht:
I think that it has to do with the fact that Beverly, while serving on the Enterprise, has made what she thinks is the safe choice with regards to Jean-Luc: she has him around, she has breakfast with him, but she doesn't want to risk her feelings or get too close to him. She feels like she can have it both ways (which incidentally is playing havoc with Jean-Luc's feelings).

As I mention in the AGT thread, I think Jean-Luc told Bev he didn't want her to wait on him hand and foot when his faculties degenerated.

Here and now, Bev knows about the Irumodic earlier, she's again head of SF Med so she can do a lot about that, and she and Picard are on very friendly terms and plan to meet for dinner soon (Nemesis' script & novel/unabridged audiobook).

I think Will & Deanna's wedding and Bev on Earth will jumpstart the relationship into romantic tryst and serious, serious thoughts indeed territory. He's no longer her captain (was she thinking how Lessons ended when saying "Or maybe we should be afraid"?), and breakfast and conversation are now things they have to plan. And the Enterprise has to go to warp for.

"Set a course for Earth! Maximum warp!"

Now that they're farther away *and still on very friendly terms*, they might get closer.

Picard knows who belongs at breakfast!

That picture, their expressions, priceless.

As for ActionBev!, she phasers "Admiral Quinn" in Conspiracy and that alien scientist who literally gets a "Death Becomes Her" hole in Suspicions. You could also include Captain Bev, Running Bev (Remember Me, GEN), Flying Bev (Remember Me)...

What about good Bev books?
Young Beverly in a 1701-C era uniform's on Double Helix: The First Virtue's cover, so I assume she figures in that Stargazer adventure.
A great P/C breakfast scene and lots of other strong/characteristic Bev scenes in The Devil's Heart, as she begins to compete with the ancient artifact for Jean-Luc's attentions.

 

[mon capitaine]

I can't really account for the breakup in AGT really. I suppose as a romantic, once your two characters have got together, that should be it. Happy Ever After time. She probably wouldn't dunp him because he was ill (heartless hussy) and probably wouldn't allow herself to be dumped by him if he was feeling Noble. We have no evidence of anyone else being involved in the breakup. I found them to be uncomforatble with each other in the reunion in AGT, but not harbouring any long term grudges. That sort of leaves mutual incompatability which would be fly in the face of all our P/C hopes.

 

[kozara]

Posted by mon capitaine:
That sort of leaves mutual incompatability which would be fly in the face of all our P/C hopes.

I'm not sure how I feel about whether Bev would allow JLP to say "Go on with your career. I don't want you to see me losing it." Would he give a host of reasons and scenarios to try disguising his nobility? Would she say "Jean-Luc, no way in hell am I leaving"?

While she said it jokingly, "I never could say no to you." "Oh so that's why you married me?" Of course the writers deliberately leave the divorce open, just like the future of Worf/Troi and her death in this AU.

Something to consider is that while the Q fantasy is real (reality = we see the outside of the ship ), he probably selected a possible future he knew would kick them out of their complacency. Bev gets a head start on the disease, Worf & Troi break up, Picard wonders what to do about Bev (maybe that's what Q was going to whisper!) and maybe LaForge was told about his wife Leah.

Posted by Naraht:
But it was also the "Crusher manuever" that persuaded him to take shore leave ( Captain's Holiday)

Wasn't it Troi who... no wait, that was going down to see his Family.
Bev could've suggested going along with him. A little sand, a little surf, a little Jamaharon. And reading erotic bedtime stories aloud in his theatrical voice.