P/C run amok...

[Naraht]

Posted by Gold Grizzly:
As to Picard, I wonder whether he might still have had a rogueish quality to him when she first met him? There's got to be a transition period between the wild boy he was in "Tapestry" and the Picard we're accustomed to.

Yes, I think this is a very good point.

Some more food for thought... It's obvious that Beverly doesn't blame Picard for Jack's death. But does/should she blame him for breaking contact with her and Wesley after Jack died? It is certainly implied in The Naked Now, at least. And I wonder if that might help to explain some of her standoffishness in later seasons. Although she and Picard have developed a meaningful friendship, it has to have remained in the back of her mind that he went and left her right when she would be most in need of support. It seems quite selfish, actually.

What does everyone else think?

 

[Gold Grizzly]

I think a lot of that would depend on whether there were any friends or family closer to her than Picard who she could turn to. We know that a Grandmother who she was close to was alive at that time; perhaps she helped her through it ...

 

[mon capitaine]

Posted by Naraht:
Although she and Picard have developed a meaningful friendship, it has to have remained in the back of her mind that he went and left her right when she would be most in need of support. It seems quite selfish, actually.
What does everyone else think?

Yes, it's seems a pretty low thing to do. Mind you - to harp on my usual theme for a moment - the characters acquired a hell of a lot more back history as the seasons progressed. Picard started as very much Jack's friend with a practically a passing acquantnce only with Jack's wife. They know very little about each other during season one, yet by season six the writers changed their minds and P & C had more of a history together.

Dumping after Jack's death is callous if he was a close friend to both of them, but less so if he was just another starfleet officer in her life.

Actually, given her reaction to the prospect of meeting up with Walker Keel again, I'd suggest he filled the role of looking after Jack's wife and kid.

 

[kozara]

Posted by Naraht:
I can definitely imagine both of them being too set in their ways, and too individualistic, to make a go of living together. But anything less than that seems like, I don't know... a failure somehow. She was, after all, married to Jack, even if she didn't see very much of him.

It would all seem a bit more natural if they had had "a bit of action" during the series already. Say, during Attached, as the original script specified.

A piece of the action? Do you mean a draft before the final? The final has her say "I'm not afraid... but I'm also not ready" but no actual action I could skim.

I love this cap you posted, but then I'm predisposed to the hurt/comfort relationships.
http://tng.trekpulse.com/episodes/season3/3x23/screencaps/sarek270.jpg

 

[Gold Grizzly]

A question that occurs to me after watching "Man Hunt", is whether Picard is attracted to Lwaxana in reality? I know her judgement of him is affected by the phase here, but it wasn't on her previous visit, and Troi says that she's an unusually powerful telepath. Is Picard really having sexual thoughts about her?

 

[mon capitaine]

^ I'm going to say No, mainly because I don't want to have to think about it. I guess she just liked to wind him up.

 

[Naraht]

Posted by mon capitaine:
Dumping after Jack's death is callous if he was a close friend to both of them, but less so if he was just another starfleet officer in her life.

Actually, given her reaction to the prospect of meeting up with Walker Keel again, I'd suggest he filled the role of looking after Jack's wife and kid.

You're right. The writers did change their minds half-way through, so I guess it's not right to blame Picard for that.

As for Keel, yes, I've always thought that was the role he played. Interestingly, StarTrek.com has a semi-official bio of Beverly that claims she had a short relationship with Keel before he introduced her to Jack (the one she mentions, without mentioning names, in The Price). But this isn't canon, and I find the idea a bit distasteful, I must admit. It's as if she was just passed around this group of friends, albeit over the course of twenty years: from Walker to Jack to Jean-Luc...

Posted by Kozara:
A piece of the action? Do you mean a draft before the final? The final has her say "I'm not afraid... but I'm also not ready" but no actual action I could skim.

Made you look it up!

You're right, it's not in the final draft. The script as presented by Nicholas Sagan had a kiss after they admitted their feelings to each other around the campfire. Apparently when Sagan was presenting the idea, he got to the point where "...and then they kiss" and Michael Piller immediately responded "absolutely not". So it was canned. But the scene was supposed to end with them kissing, and with a fade to black, thus clearly implying what they got up to that evening!

 

[mon capitaine]

Posted by Naraht:
But this isn't canon, and I find the idea a bit distasteful, I must admit. It's as if she was just passed around this group of friends, albeit over the course of twenty years: from Walker to Jack to Jean-Luc...

Oh yuk. Some sort of Command-Cadet groupie? No, no, no.

 

[Naraht]

^^^ "Yuk" was my feeling exactly. I think your idea does just as good a job of explaining why she was so glad to see Walker, and also has more dramatic potential long-term.

 

[mon capitaine]

Turning to the novels for a moment, it struck me that P & C actually got it on in 'A Time to Die' - The first book of that series. Now I must confess that I rather lost interest in the series very early in book 2, but book 1 definitely has a scene which ends with a Bev suggestive line and a * * * type of thing.

Anyway, if I didn't know better I'd say they spent the night together.

 

[Naraht]

Really?

How come you suddenly just mention this once I've gone home for the holidays, and am now 45 minutes drive from the nearest Borders? You've got to give me more details than that! What happens?

I've just been re-reading Q-in-Law by Peter David, and there are some nice P/C scenes in that...

 

[mon capitaine]

Ah, Good Morning. Some of us have been at our desks for hours.....

Since I posted this, it occurs to me that I might have to faff around with those spoiler tags if we want to discuss the novels. That might be a handicap.

I've not read Q-In-Law. The whole Mrs Troi thing not being a big selling point with me. But people tell me it's very good.

 

[Naraht]

Hey, I've been up since 7.30... I've just been too lazy to post!

Q-in-Law isn't my favourite novel, I must admit. The Lwaxana Troi parts aren't that great. But it does have a certain refreshing Peter David-ness about it; parts are very funny.

<span class="spoiler"><font class="small">Spoiler:</font><hr /><span> As for spoiler tags... they're not that complicated, really! </span><hr /></span>

 

[mon capitaine]

^ OK. Actually I got the wrong book title (in case you were thinking of racing to Borders), it's in A Time to be Born.

Basicaly she
<span class="spoiler"><font class="small">Spoiler:</font><hr /><span> rushes round to see him, passes along some bad news
and then offers to make it a night to remember. </span><hr /></span>

I'm sure we all know what that means.

 

[Naraht]

That sounds vaguely promising, but also a bit odd. Do you really think, after all of that dithering for over seven years, that they would just get them together without fanfare in the middle of a random novel? Could this just be your obsession with Picard's sex life kicking in again?

 

[mon capitaine]

Well OK, I know the rules of the books mean you can't fundamentally change character relationships without some huge reset button on the back page, but it just seemed a very odd thing to say. Obviously they were just breaking out the scrabble board again...

 

[Naraht]

Who knows, perhaps when Beverly says "a night to remember," she means she'll take him dancing on the holodeck, or replicate his favourite croissants for him?

Thinking about it, I'm not sure that I want to see them get together in the books after all. In a way, it would feel like too little, too late, and I'm not sure that I'd ever accept it as really canon. Am I crazy, or do you see what I mean?

 

[Gold Grizzly]

I enjoyed the novels more back in the good old days before I realised that they weren't canon. I really thought Riker and Troi were going to get married in "Q In Law"!

 

[Malleus]

Naraht, it is time to "build me [a P/C] army worthy of [P/C-]dor."

 

[Naraht]

Posted by Gold Grizzly:
I enjoyed the novels more back in the good old days before I realised that they weren't canon. I really thought Riker and Troi were going to get married in "Q In Law"!

I agree; I think I enjoyed them most back when I was still in primary school. But as for canon, I take a very relaxed approach: if I like something, it's in, and if I don't, it isn't.

That whole Anij thing, for example, never happened.