Well, that didn't last long.
Kind of defeats the purpose of leaving it ambigious!
Kind of defeats the purpose of leaving it ambigious!
Ozark is Breaking Bad Lite.
- Thread starter Guy Gardener
- Start date
I liked the ending overall (though I thought the final scene was a little too "Sopranosey").
One question, however. Maybe I missed something or read a little too much into this but:
One question, however. Maybe I missed something or read a little too much into this but:
With Ruth dead, isn't the Byrd's scheme about to fall apart and isn't the family going to be stuck there? Both the cartel and FBI seemed to be specifically banking on the idea that the casino would still be used to launder money (hence, the non-prosecution agreements for Ruth and Rachel). But with Ruth dead, the casino has neither an owner nor a licensee. Ruth was the majority owner and her only heir is "Three." He can't run it and, frankly, neither could Rachel (assuming she even still holds a sufficient interest). That means both the cartel and FBI are going to want Marty back in charge, right?
Give Justified a try if you haven't watched it. There's good guys to root for, but Walton Goggins as Boyd Crowder just about steals the show every season. Some of the best writing on any show I have ever watched.
That's a good point, although I'm sure the FBI could put someone else in place maybe? I can' see it being an insurmountable issue. I do wonder if there's going to be a spin off or continuation of some kind though.
Thanks, unfortunately I binged the whole of Justified last year, and yes it's amazing!!!
Justified is indeed amazing. I'm due for a rewatch, especially with City Primeval coming (miniseries adaptation of another Elmore Leonard novel which will feature Olyphant reprising Raylan).
Just finished it. I'm not super happy with the way they ended, and not just because of the live/die list. I give it a C.
It would have been easier to stomach Ruth dying if the ending weren't just "The Byrds win, all the evil people get what they want, everyone likable is dead." I guess they were going for a realpolitik response to the more storybook way Breaking Bad ended. But the "Bad guys win in reality" statement they made just felt derivative.
It didn't seem ambiguous at all to me who Jonah shot. It made me think of the movie History of Violence. But it fits the theme better, in the end Jonah wanted his happy suburban life back, and with that in his sights, morality didn't matter. Which also reminds me of the movie Crimes and Misdemeanors.
It reminds me of these great nihilistic movies about bad guys winning in reality and morality not mattering in the end because, well, it is super derivative of them. The wild west fairy tale would have frankly worked better.
It didn't seem ambiguous at all to me who Jonah shot. It made me think of the movie History of Violence. But it fits the theme better, in the end Jonah wanted his happy suburban life back, and with that in his sights, morality didn't matter. Which also reminds me of the movie Crimes and Misdemeanors.
It reminds me of these great nihilistic movies about bad guys winning in reality and morality not mattering in the end because, well, it is super derivative of them. The wild west fairy tale would have frankly worked better.
Does anyone else think it’s hilarious in the last couple episodes people just talk about murders and assassination plots in crowded rooms?
Yup, that pretty much hits it right there. Makes the whole series kind of...eh. Doesn't take away from the great story arc for Ruth but the rest, I just don't care anymore.
It basically makes the entire series about a surburban white family that lost its lifestyle, moved into the sticks, shat everywhere they needed to and killed everyone that got in their way to get that lifestyle back.
So, good comment on depressing reality, not so great storytelling.
So, good comment on depressing reality, not so great storytelling.
Like I mentioned earlier from the behind-the-scenes feature: They're an invasive species.
I give them credit for the commentary on white suburban lifestyle. It’s all Ruth ever really wanted. They also touched on that in Orange Is The New Black, when Taystee explains to Piper that the reason everyone messed with her was that she represents everything they can’t have.
Finished it last night. Hoo-Boy, that ending though!
Ultimately found it unsatisfying, and for numerous reasons. I found it ridiculous how easily they kept getting away with things, to the point that it felt rather cartoonish. You can't have things go their way all the time. It just became rather grating.
One thing that really bothers me in the crash. It's one thing to have it amount to nothing, but they kept playing it off as a major development, way back in the first episode of the season by rewinding to serve the season as events leading up to it. To viewers, that serves to show that it might be rather significant. So then it happens and they bounce right back... as if it never happened. uhh.. ok.
I would have ended right at the crash. Give them a few happy moments together, have the crash happen then cut.
I have an alternate theory to the events. Everything after the crash is a creation of Wendy's dilusional mind to grasp hold of the lie. Her conversation with the priest then makes more sense. The priest serves more as symbolism telling her mind she hasn't gotten away. Also, when they're back home, the windows are all broken, which I see as her reality being shattered. Jonah? Well, she always desperately wanted him to be part of the family business.
One thing that really bothers me in the crash. It's one thing to have it amount to nothing, but they kept playing it off as a major development, way back in the first episode of the season by rewinding to serve the season as events leading up to it. To viewers, that serves to show that it might be rather significant. So then it happens and they bounce right back... as if it never happened. uhh.. ok.
I would have ended right at the crash. Give them a few happy moments together, have the crash happen then cut.
I have an alternate theory to the events. Everything after the crash is a creation of Wendy's dilusional mind to grasp hold of the lie. Her conversation with the priest then makes more sense. The priest serves more as symbolism telling her mind she hasn't gotten away. Also, when they're back home, the windows are all broken, which I see as her reality being shattered. Jonah? Well, she always desperately wanted him to be part of the family business.
I like that theory in the abstract but I'm pretty sure that isn't what the producers intended.
My wife and I binged this for the first time recently.
We liked it very much. Some very intense scenes…like Wendy and her brother trying to drive out of town.
Ultimately I was disappointed that Wendy didn’t get her comeuppance. She was an awful, awful person.
Also, what I hated most…
We liked it very much. Some very intense scenes…like Wendy and her brother trying to drive out of town.
Ultimately I was disappointed that Wendy didn’t get her comeuppance. She was an awful, awful person.
Also, what I hated most…
They killed Ruth! 
I like your theory a lot, Owain. Even if it wasn't what the producers intended, I think it makes much more sense than what we actually got.
Yeah, I'm sure they didn't. I think sometimes writers simply don't know how to end things properly. What's frustrating is that they had a good concept, but as the show went along, I think it became increasingly harder to reconcile.
Thanks!
What led me to that theory was the fact that everything after the crash feels so surreal. They bounce back, uninjured, and they almost look joyful, which is in complete contrast to what we had just seen before. Then the conversation with the priest, and even the way he looks at them as they walk away led me to believe all wasn't as it seemed. But the way Wendy is talking, it feels like she's not only trying to convince herself as much as the priest. Here though, her reality is crumbling, and it fits with the house scene that comes next. The scene in the house is also oddly surreal with the camera far enough away that it's not focused on who's inside. It's as if they don't even notice their windows are shattered until Wendy turns and notices the detective, who I think is supposed to show their conscience. Even the windows are oddly shattered, and it's why I feel it represents reality being shattered. And it's interesting that we get a brief glimpse of Johah last, as maybe that represents a last gasp before losing conciousness. I think that even if that's not what they intended, it certainly puts the ending in a better perspective.
Yeah, count me in as disappointed too. I kept waiting all season for the shoe to drop. It never quite did. I'm disappointed that the writers thought it was a good idea to go that way.
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I see the ending as
a nihilistic response to the Dostoevskian consequentialism of the Better Call Saul-verse. The Crimes and Misdemeanors to Breaking Bad's Crime and Punishment. Saying that people like the Byrds waltz into people's backyards, do whatever they want and get away with it because that's how it works in the real world. And they value their lifestyle more than they do the lives they affect.
It's certainly nihilistic, I'll give it that. But it can be argued that it goes too far in that direction as to appear almost cartoonish in that everything bounces off them.