OT: Buying a Car - Getting Fleeced?

[Shikarnov]

Hi All,

I'm buying a new car for the first time and have been getting quotes on Toyota Carollas (with which my family has had a lot of good luck over the years). I'm not looking for anything fancy, and most of my local dealerships are talking $17K (including taxes, fees, etc) for a 2012 with automatic transmission.

From what I'm reading online, it seems like a reasonable price, but I've heard stories my whole life about slimy sales people that you need to work on for months to get a good deal, and it's hard to accept this quote at face value.

So I ask you all: what do you think? If I pay the $17K, will that constitute getting fleeced?

Thanks,

Z

 

[Finn]

I wouldn't go over $12K unless it's a family car.

Mine cost $10K and it's awesome.

 

[Shikarnov]

I wouldn't go over $12K unless it's a family car.

My wife and I have no children yet, but some day we will. So, at the moment, the car will be for commuting to work and the occasional weekend away. Down the line, however, there'll almost certainly be a car seat in the back (I hope).

 

[RevDMV]

Thankfully the net is full of resources now to get a better idea of value.

Doing the quick edmunds.com check show 17k is there "true value" price. with 16.7 being the dealer invoice.

Of course the dealers have incentives, hold back and various other monies that would already have profit for them in, so called, invoice prices.

If I were shopping for new car I would go through the internet sales offices of a few local dealers and offer a below invoice bid, and round robin to get the best price quote, of an out the door price. Plan to buy at the price and walk if they try to add anything when you go in to pick it up.

That being said, I'm a used car buyer now. One to two years old, 10-12k miles per year, present some very good bargains.

 

[Captain Ice]

Couple of questions before I can answer your question....

1. You mention the term fleece. This usually is used in conjunction with a vehicle lease. Are you talking about leasing a vehicle or purchasing it outright?

2. Do you have something like a Costco, AAA, or credit union membership? If so, you can save money over what the dealer will quote you directly by going through them.

 

[Brolan]

Thankfully the net is full of resources now to get a better idea of value.

Doing the quick edmunds.com check show 17k is there "true value" price. with 16.7 being the dealer invoice.

Of course the dealers have incentives, hold back and various other monies that would already have profit for them in, so called, invoice prices.

If I were shopping for new car I would go through the internet sales offices of a few local dealers and offer a below invoice bid, and round robin to get the best price quote, of an out the door price. Plan to buy at the price and walk if they try to add anything when you go in to pick it up.

That being said, I'm a used car buyer now. One to two years old, 10-12k miles per year, present some very good bargains.

The only way to be sure you are getting the best price is to get two dealers fighting each other. Take your 17K quote, along with the VIN of the car you are looking at, to another dealer and ask if they can do better. Go back and forth until one or both cry Uncle.

 

[auntiehill]

Dude, this is Miscellaneous. Nothing is "OT."

 

[Trekker4747]

Find out what the dealer invoice price is for the car (you can either research it on-line or simply go in there and see the invoice itself) and offer around $200 over invoice. If they say no, threaten to walk. This is how I bought my first car and it's all of the "bargaining" I had to do. I researched the price, saw their invoice and the price on it was about what I expected so I offered a little over that.

Asking a little under invoice and bargaining up to a couple hundred over isn't a bad route to go either but don't pay anything more than a few hundred over invoice. That's plenty of money for them to make off the car -dealerships mostly make money off used cars and service anyway- and don't fall for any sob story from the salesman about you "taking food from his kids' mouths."

 

[Captain_Nick]

You are going to lose money on the car one war or another. Don't lose sleep over a few hundred bucks

 

[Holdfast]

Value is in the eye of the beholder; is any car worth 17k, or 100k, or 1k? Sure, there's a market price, but as the old adage goes, it takes two views to make a market.

Look to play dealers off, look to get incentives, haggle to the best of your ability; it's always worth it. And the process is quite fun. But at the end of the day, what's more important than the market price or the invoice price or anything else is whether you actually like the car enough to want to spend the final sum that your negotiation has reached. In other words, know what you personally value the car at, not what the market values the car at, and walk away if the market price ends up too high... or grab it with both hands if the market price is lower.

Sometimes one can overcomplicate the problem when trying to seek something as illusory as an objective value. The whole principle of a market is that value is derived through transactions - there is nothing objective underlying it - and any individual can walk away.

(edit - in his own savant-ish way, I see Collingwood Nick just above has sort of made the same point in a less precise way)

 

[Captain_Nick]

I used fewer words, that makes my post more efficient than yours

 

[RevDMV]

Holdfast is a professional word user, he has a house limit on how low the count can go...

None the less, agree, if you feel like you've received a good deal and were treated well in the process, enjoy the purchase.

 

[Holdfast]

I used fewer words, that makes my post more efficient than yours

The old saw of "Good, fast, cheap; pick two" comes to mind when comparing posts...

Holdfast is a professional word user, he has a house limit on how low the count can go...

You forgot the "ab" in front of the user.

 

[the 4th hanson bro]

Check out edmunds.com - you can research the vehicle and get quotes from local dealers. That's how I bought our last car, played two off each other and ended up with what I felt was the best price.

I used fewer words, that makes my post more efficient than yours

The old saw of "Good, fast, cheap; pick two" comes to mind when comparing posts...

Now you've got to have all three to be competitive. Or so I've heard.

Holdfast is a professional word user, he has a house limit on how low the count can go...

You forgot the "ab" in front of the user.

Just so long as you don't delete the "word", you'll be ok.

 

[Captain_Nick]

Good to see you again too Holdfast

 

[Holdfast]

Holdfast is a professional word user, he has a house limit on how low the count can go...

You forgot the "ab" in front of the user.

Just so long as you don't delete the "word", you'll be ok.

That, as the car salesmen would say, is an optional extra.

Good to see you again too Holdfast

 

[Shikarnov]

Couple of questions before I can answer your question....

1. You mention the term fleece. This usually is used in conjunction with a vehicle lease. Are you talking about leasing a vehicle or purchasing it outright?

2. Do you have something like a Costco, AAA, or credit union membership? If so, you can save money over what the dealer will quote you directly by going through them.

To your first question, I'm planning to buy outright. I didn't realize that "getting fleeced" had anything to do with leasing. Sorry 'bout that...

And yes, I'm a member of AAA and a local credit union. I have to admit that I never thought of going through either one, but it's worth investigating. Thanks for the tip.

The only way to be sure you are getting the best price is to get two dealers fighting each other. Take your 17K quote, along with the VIN of the car you are looking at, to another dealer and ask if they can do better. Go back and forth until one or both cry Uncle.

Already got that happening with three Toyota dealers in my local area.

Dude, this is Miscellaneous. Nothing is "OT."

lol. Force of habit, I guess.

Find out what the dealer invoice price is for the car (you can either research it on-line or simply go in there and see the invoice itself) and offer around $200 over invoice. If they say no, threaten to walk. This is how I bought my first car and it's all of the "bargaining" I had to do. I researched the price, saw their invoice and the price on it was about what I expected so I offered a little over that.

Looks like the invoice price for a Corolla is right around $16K... So it seems there's not nearly as much "wiggle room" as I've been lead to believe when buying cars. That, or the economy has destroyed the stereotypical markups...

Asking a little under invoice and bargaining up to a couple hundred over isn't a bad route to go either but don't pay anything more than a few hundred over invoice. That's plenty of money for them to make off the car -dealerships mostly make money off used cars and service anyway- and don't fall for any sob story from the salesman about you "taking food from his kids' mouths."

Thanks for the tip. No sob stories. Got it.

I used fewer words, that makes my post more efficient than yours

"If I'd had more time, I'd have written a shorter letter." ~ Mark Twain.





And thanks to everybody here for your responses. I've got a lot to think about -- with AAA, credit unions, edmunds.com , etc, and I really appreciate your insights and experiences.

I'll report in to let you all know how it turns out.

Z

 

[Lindley]

There is more "wiggle room" with a used car. When buying new, you will rarely find a dealer willing to go under invoice price. Going to invoice price is very possible at the moment though.

One thing to watch out for is that invoice price includes freight. If a dealer attempts to add a freight charge on top of invoice, they are trying to pull a fast one. Some dealers first subtract freight from invoice so they can appear to be advertising a lower price, and then add it back in as a line item; this is fine, but don't be fooled when doing your price comparisons.

They will offer you various service and protection plans, as well as dealer-installed options. Don't be afraid to accept one if you want it, but don't feel pressured to either. If you're waffling about one of these they are likely to reduce the price for you, especially if you go in at the start of the month. They have a certain amount of "marketing money" per month which they can use to discount prices for you.

If you get an auto loan, the interest rate is very important. Many companies (including Toyota I believe) are offering 0% right now, so take it!

 

[backstept]

I think the best thing is to secure your own financing through your credit union. That way you know who you're dealing with, they won't sell your debt to another lender, change rates without sufficient notice etc . . .

it's working well for me, so far

 

[Warp Coil]

Are we talking about used or new? Assuming this is a new car, I'd definitely do as others have suggested and visit Edmunds.com. You can build and price the Corolla that you are planning to buy. The site will tell you the MSRP (which will match what is on the car's sticker at the dealership) as well as the invoice price and the "true market value" which tells you what you might reasonably expect to pay for the car in your region. I would look to pay somewhere between Edmund's invoice price and the true market value. Keep in mind that you will still have to pay freight, taxes and fees on top of the price of the car.

Not sure how you plan to pay for the vehicle. If you are financing, it looks like Toyota is offering 1.9% APR for up to 60 months on the Corolla. You could try to find a better deal from a credit union but that's a pretty decent interest rate.