Original Battle Royale films getting wide DVD/BD release

[23skidoo]

One of the under-reported "battle royales" going on online is between fans of Koushun Takami's novel Battle Royale, which spawned two cult movies in Japan and a manga adaptation, and Suzanne Collins' The Hunger Games, with fans of BR - which was published in 1999 - claiming Hunger Games is a rip-off, and defenders of Hunger Games coming up with sometimes-creative rationales for calling B.S. (Collins is officially on record as claiming she came up with the idea of students being forced to kill each other in a government-sponsored blood sport without ever knowing about Takami's story, and there's no reason to doubt her. And Collins' defenders make a valid point that she expanded the idea into a trilogy, whereas Takami wrote only a single novel - the Battle Royale II movie is not adapted from his book.)

But there is one good thing that has come out of all this back-and-forth. After years of fans having to rely on bootlegs, the original Battle Royale movies are hitting DVD and Blu-ray in North America on March 20. 2 days before The Hunger Games.

http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Royale-Complete-Collection-Blu-ray/dp/B006L4MX4A

I was actually surprised to learn about this release, as I had heard (obviously incorrectly) that the films were technically banned in the US and Canada because of the violence involving kids and teens (the novel and manga also throws sex into the mix, which is downplayed in the films). Either no such ban existed or it was decided that Hunger Games was going to blow the lid off all that anyway, so what the hell. (EDIT: after typing that I found a blog that suggests the film might have been not so much banned but simply rejected by distributors due to it coming out so soon after Columbine.)

One good thing about the Hunger Games movie, too, is it will likely prevent a bowdlerized US remake of the original Battle Royale from being made. Which is a shame because a version starring the various Nickelodeon and Disney tween stars might actually have made for an interesting movie. I mean, Miley taking down Miranda with an Uzi? Come on!

Alex

 

[Peter Q Taggart]

Ordered my copy the day it was announced. I managed to get a copy of the region 2 blu-ray set that came out last year for $28 total from Amazon UK. The limited edition was originally region free. It went out of print immediately and was then re-released region locked. http://www.arrowfilms.co.uk/index.php?c=y&tle_id=476&v= The bonus disc was a dvd and therefore in PAL format. I ripped it to the computer and converted it to NTSC. It looks like the supplements from the Anchor Bay edition are mostly the same. I'm looking forwrd to this one since it has an english dub and I can finally watch the movie itself without reading the subtitles.

 

[23skidoo]

I'm looking forwrd to this one since it has an english dub and I can finally watch the movie itself without reading the subtitles.

Under NO circumstances watch this with the English dub. It is one of the worst dubs I have ever heard. I always prefer the original version with subtitles but switched over to the dub out of curiosity and they aren't even speaking the original dialogue and the voices sound like the bad anime dubs of the 1980s that turned so many people off the genre (or, worse, made the genre a joke).

My strongest advice is suck it up and watch the subtitled version. Or at the very least turn the subtitles on while watching the dub so you at least know what they're really saying. I'd have expected a much better job of dubbing than this. But then I'm used to it - the utterly excellent Avalon (a science fiction film co-produced by Japan and Poland) was released a few years ago in an English dub and it destroyed the film.

Alex

 

[Servo]

Collins is officially on record as claiming she came up with the idea of students being forced to kill each other in a government-sponsored blood sport without ever knowing about Takami's story, and there's no reason to doubt her...

Yeah, I don't really care one way or the other, but I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit on that statement.

...And Collins' defenders make a valid point that she expanded the idea into a trilogy, whereas Takami wrote only a single novel - the Battle Royale II movie is not adapted from his book.

What does that have to do with anything? The fact that she "expanded the idea into a trilogy" is supposed to prove she didn't rip off the basic idea in the first place? How does that work as a valid defense?

Anyway, good news about the BR Blu-Ray.

 

[milo bloom]

Collins is officially on record as claiming she came up with the idea of students being forced to kill each other in a government-sponsored blood sport without ever knowing about Takami's story, and there's no reason to doubt her...

Yeah, I don't really care one way or the other, but I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit on that statement.

...And Collins' defenders make a valid point that she expanded the idea into a trilogy, whereas Takami wrote only a single novel - the Battle Royale II movie is not adapted from his book.

What does that have to do with anything? The fact that she "expanded the idea into a trilogy" is supposed to prove she didn't rip off the basic idea in the first place? How does that work as a valid defense?

Anyway, good news about the BR Blu-Ray.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Most_Dangerous_Game

There is nothing new under the sun.

 

[Servo]

Your point being?

 

[davejames]

His point being that it's hardly an original idea.

And how the heck would a woman like Collins have ever heard of some obscure, cult Japanese movie that was only available in bootleg form at conventions? I'm pretty well clued in to nerd culture, and I never even heard of the damn thing until a handful of people started bringing it up in Hunger Games comment boards.

Besides, they're both so radically different in style that it's hardly worth comparing the two. Battle Royale is this crazy, nutso, over the top satire where Hunger Games is more of a grim survival story told from one girl's perspective.

 

[Thestral]

^ Exactly. There's no good reason, other than fannish distrust over anything super-popular, to think Collins was influenced by Battlefield.

 

[Servo]

His point being that it's hardly an original idea.

And at what point did I contest that notion? I even said in my first post that I didn't care either way. My questions were based around why her defenders are claiming that her making a trilogy, versus Takami only writing a single book, somehow acts as proof that she didn't rip the idea off. I even deliberately wrote it in English so as not to confuse.

And how the heck would a woman like Collins have ever heard of some obscure, cult Japanese movie that was only available in bootleg form at conventions? I'm pretty well clued in to nerd culture, and I never even heard of the damn thing until a handful of people started bringing it up in Hunger Games comment boards.

Oh well, if you've never heard of it...

Maybe things are different where you're from, but here in the UK Battle Royale is widely known. It's on Film4 practically every other month, and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of people I've met who haven't either seen it or at least heard of it. Nerds and non-nerds alike.

 

[davejames]

Well it's never aired over here in the US, and she's a mother of two who lives in Connecticut. So I'm pretty sure she would fall into that "never heard of it" camp.

 

[milo bloom]

His point being that it's hardly an original idea.

And at what point did I contest that notion? I even said in my first post that I didn't care either way. My questions were based around why her defenders are claiming that her making a trilogy, versus Takami only writing a single book, somehow acts as proof that she didn't rip the idea off. I even deliberately wrote it in English so as not to confuse.

And how the heck would a woman like Collins have ever heard of some obscure, cult Japanese movie that was only available in bootleg form at conventions? I'm pretty well clued in to nerd culture, and I never even heard of the damn thing until a handful of people started bringing it up in Hunger Games comment boards.

Oh well, if you've never heard of it...

Maybe things are different where you're from, but here in the UK Battle Royale is widely known. It's on Film4 practically every other month, and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of people I've met who haven't either seen it or at least heard of it. Nerds and non-nerds alike.

Yeah, it's not very well known in the US at all. I only know about because I constantly lurk DVD forums where this type of film flourishes in the community, but in the mainstream US it's basically unknown.

Edit to add: Servo, you're aware of how often we have school shootings over here right? Even though the USA has culture that worships guns, we still flip our shit when somebody shoots up a school (and of course we don't blame the guns, usually something like the lack of school prayer).

 

[Mooch]

And how the heck would a woman like Collins have ever heard of some obscure, cult Japanese movie that was only available in bootleg form at conventions? I'm pretty well clued in to nerd culture, and I never even heard of the damn thing until a handful of people started bringing it up in Hunger Games comment boards.

The novel has been generally available in North America since 2003. Since she is a novelist, it seems reasonable for her to have heard of it before.

 

[milo bloom]

And how the heck would a woman like Collins have ever heard of some obscure, cult Japanese movie that was only available in bootleg form at conventions? I'm pretty well clued in to nerd culture, and I never even heard of the damn thing until a handful of people started bringing it up in Hunger Games comment boards.

The novel has been generally available in North America since 2003. Since she is a novelist, it seems reasonable for her to have heard of it before.

Say, I knew a guy that once went to Canada, do you know him?

See how that works?


As I said earlier, this property is basically unknown in the US. Her being a novelist doesn't mean she knows about every single book that comes out in North America.

 

[Venardhi]

It is a rather good book, and can often be found on "staff rec" shelves and the like, but I'm willing to believe she had never read it. I wouldn't be surprised if a friend had once described it or she read the back in a store years earlier though; just enough to plant the seed. The world will never know.

For the record though, "The Most Dangerous Game" is a whole other animal.

 

[Mooch]

Say, I knew a guy that once went to Canada, do you know him?

See how that works?


As I said earlier, this property is basically unknown in the US. Her being a novelist doesn't mean she knows about every single book that comes out in North America.

I was merely illustrating that Battle Royale is more than a "obscure, cult Japanese movie".

I'm sure she isn't familiar with every book that comes out. I'm certainly not, although I imagine I read more than the average person. And I had heard of Battle Royale even before I saw the novel. And my copy is the eighth printing, and I've had it for 8 years!

Even if Collins hadn't heard of BR, I'm surprised her publisher or her editor didn't know of it and mention it to her. Anyway, it's not like I think she's lying, I just think it's weird.

Edit: According to this article from the New York Times, her editor did know about Battle Royale. So that's cool.

 

[Set Harth]

the voices sound like the bad anime dubs of the 1980s that turned so many people off the genre (or, worse, made the genre a joke).

Or turned them off dubs.

 

[23skidoo]

the voices sound like the bad anime dubs of the 1980s that turned so many people off the genre (or, worse, made the genre a joke).

Or turned them off dubs.

Very good point indeed. Dubs can be extremely well done. Look at the fact the French (or was it Italian) dubs of Doctor Who are apparently so well done the voice actors became fan favorites. Certainly there are many anime releases where the dubbing is immaculate, and there's good reason why the voice actors become stars in their own right. Ironically the best English dubbing of Japanese I have ever heard is the original Iron Chef series which sounds so natural you forget you're listening to a dub - and that's the point. I remember the French-language dub of the US series Wonderfalls was unique in that they had the original lead actress - a French-Canadian - record the dialogue. I never saw it, but I'm sure it was pitch-perfect.

I'm not a fan of dubs only because I prefer to hear the original voices and inflections, and I can multitask and read at the same time. These days my hearing is not what it used to be so I find myself watching with subtitles on half the time anyway so I might as well get used to it. But if a dub is well done, hey I don't care. And I was just expecting something better from a release of the stature of Battle Royale. Hell, odds are half the actors in the film probably spoke perfect English anyway, so they could have just brought them in.

I was with a friend who was willing to spend $150 on an anime set at a comic shop (back in the day when anime and manga was dominating the shelves - this was about 10 years back) and he walked away from the purchase when he found out the set had no original-language option. Based on the fact he'd come across one too many bad dubs and he didn't want to risk blowing $150 on another one.

Alex

 

[tighr]

I also had never heard of Battle Royale until it started getting frequently mentioned in comments about The Hunger Games. I can understand that Collins may never have heard of it, so I doubt she stole the idea. After reading the books and seeing the first movie, I went and picked up the Battle Royale Blu Ray to compare them. While they are similar (and there are many similarities), the differences are enough that they stand as separate works.

I find it interesting that the linked article provides an alternate explanation for where she got the idea. She claims that she juxtaposed reality TV shows with the war in Iraq, which makes sense. She also relied on the Greek myth of the Labyrinth, which probably influenced her idea of the Gamemakers and the traps they set in the Arena.

I would compare the differences between the two films/books as being analogous to the differences between Infernal Affairs and The Departed (except the latter was intended to be a remake). They have the same general plot, but the themes and situations are changed such that each are unique. You get a different entertainment value out of each.

 

[23skidoo]

They have the same general plot, but the themes and situations are changed such that each are unique. You get a different entertainment value out of each.

I agree that I think we can take Collins at her word that she wasn't intentionally copying BR. Apparently she was made aware of BR during the time she was writing the first book and was told not to watch it or read it. So I don't subscribe to the "it's a rip-off of Battle Royale" or the whole "Battle Royale with Cheese" meme that's going around.

I've yet to read the book or see the movie, but from what I hear the main difference is Battle Royale is more cutting and to the point in its criticisms of society. And it pulls no punches in condemning youth and adult society (as I recall it came out during what is referred to as Japan's lost decade when its economy went to hell and they nearly became like Greece so there was a lot of anger over there).

My first impression of Hunger Games by way of the movie clips I've seen is it actually reminds me more of Margaret Attwood's The Handmaid's Tale, at least in terms of the dystopian aspects of the society. Not calling it a copy of that either, but I just got the same vibe from watching elements of the trailers. But then you could also make a case for it having similarities to Spartacus (groups of people forced to train to kill each other).

There are no totally original storylines anymore anyway (a case has been made that it is impossible to compose something completely original as all story permutations have been done). My feeling is no one loses here: Hunger Games is getting people to read books just as Potter did, the movie is a huge hit - and it's in 2D yet!, and at the same time it's drawing attention to Battle Royale in both its print and movie form, and BR has gotten enough attention that few people - except those not paying attention - will accuse BR of being the copy. And as noted earlier the chances of them now doing a watered-down American remake of BR is all but nil. So it's all good.

Alex

 

[tighr]

I've yet to read the book or see the movie, but from what I hear the main difference is Battle Royale is more cutting and to the point in its criticisms of society. And it pulls no punches in condemning youth and adult society (as I recall it came out during what is referred to as Japan's lost decade when its economy went to hell and they nearly became like Greece so there was a lot of anger over there).

Correct. The major themes in Battle Royale of youth VS. adults is not present in The Hunger Games. Instead, the theme is oppressed/slaves VS. authority.

The children in Battle Royale are being made to fight because adults think kids have gotten spoiled and need to be taught some fuckin' manners. The parents are actually in on it, and the intent is to punish the children.

The children in The Hunger Games are being made to fight not because they're spoiled but because it's intended to send a message to their parents not to revolt. The intent is to punish the citizenry and remind them of their past indiscretions. I don't want to spoil it for anyone, but it's explained quite clearly in book 2 Catching Fire, when they announce format for the Quarter Quells (essentially, every 25 years they have a SUPER HUNGER GAMES ++ ).

Spoiler: Catching Fire

In the book, they explain that the purpose of the Hunger Games is to remind the citizens that the Capitol is in charge, and it's the fault of the districts that the children are subjected to the Games.

The first Quarter Quell (25th Anniversary) "as a reminder to the rebels that their children were dying because of their choice to initiate violence, every district was made to hold an election and vote on the tributes who would represent it."

The second Quarter Quell (50th anniversary) "as a reminder that two rebels died for each Capitol citizen, every district was required to send twice as many tributes."

The third Quarter Quell (75th anniversary), of which the 2nd book largely revolves around, "as a reminder to the rebels that even the strongest among them cannot overcome the power of the Capitol, the male and female tributes will be reaped from their existing pool of victors." i.e., the now adult kids who had previously been the winners of the Games over the past 75 years. This meant not only that our heroine, Katniss, has to go BACK a second time (she's the only female from District 12 to have ever won) but that some of the other districts were sending in their favorite champions. One district even had to send an 80 year old woman, which is freaking brutal because she doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell.

It was really quite brilliant on her part, especially the way the Quells were described. You definitely get the impression that the Capitol politicians are assholes.