Orci talks about Star Trek 3

[mos6507]

I watched Star Trek VI about two days ago and thought Nichelle Nichols was a pretty woman

The crew were given a uniforms from Trek II onward that cleverly obscured the steadily expanding waist-lines that most of them were dealing with. Nichelle was not obese but she was chunkier than she was in TOS (and even TMP) and definitely not in the sort of shape you'd want to be for a strip-tease. This is probably why, as they filmed the scene, they tried to hide her middle and focus on flashing her legs.

I also think it's no particular badge of honor for a woman to be put into a strip-tease scene whether they can carry it off or not. It's objectification.

I think it should have fit in with the character we've known for years or at least actually had a reason to be in the movie other than 'Uhura is a lovely woman.' This goes in hand with the Scotty/Uhura scene, as well as Scotty's head vs. the bulkhead scene and so forth.

Exactly. Uhura as a character was much better served when she threatened the transporter operator in Trek III.

The strip-tease is a low-brow Looney Tunes way of having the characters try to get out of a jam. It's just bad writing.

 

[seigezunt]

The mystery box re Khan was such a disaster, I am happy to see they may step away from that approach. But I also worry about going too much the other way. Didn't script leaks result in earlier movies having worse returns?

Or was that just because they were crappy? :-)

 

[xavier]

I watched Star Trek VI about two days ago and thought Nichelle Nichols was a pretty woman

The crew were given a uniforms from Trek II onward that cleverly obscured the steadily expanding waist-lines that most of them were dealing with. Nichelle was not obese but she was chunkier than she was in TOS (and even TMP) and definitely not in the sort of shape you'd want to be for a strip-tease. This is probably why, as they filmed the scene, they tried to hide her middle and focus on flashing her legs.

I also think it's no particular badge of honor for a woman to be put into a strip-tease scene whether they can carry it off or not. It's objectification.

I think it should have fit in with the character we've known for years or at least actually had a reason to be in the movie other than 'Uhura is a lovely woman.' This goes in hand with the Scotty/Uhura scene, as well as Scotty's head vs. the bulkhead scene and so forth.

Exactly. Uhura as a character was much better served when she threatened the transporter operator in Trek III.

The strip-tease is a low-brow Looney Tunes way of having the characters try to get out of a jam. It's just bad writing.

many stuff in STID is bad writing.

 

[Mudd]

And what are these "things" he refers to that make "it" accessible to a "general audience"? My guess is that's bar fights and boobies.

Probably likeable, relatable characters and a complete lack of technobabble.

Exactly so.

Whatever they did obviously has made Trek accessible to a general audience, because these movies are the most successful Trek productions ever.

 

[borgboy]

I'm not defending the Uhura fan dance as strong feminist writing, but I think it's believable that someone would find Uhura's fan dance appealing. She is a lovely woman at any age, and sex appeal isn't limited to the young and thin.

 

[Pauln6]

And what are these "things" he refers to that make "it" accessible to a "general audience"? My guess is that's bar fights and boobies.

Probably likeable, relatable characters and a complete lack of technobabble.

Exactly so.

Whatever they did obviously has made Trek accessible to a general audience, because these movies are the most successful Trek productions ever.

I'm happy with a lack of technobabble but that doesn't excuse replacing it with blatantly incorrect real science. Do a little bit of research guys. My friend's 7 year old was pointing out scientific howlers. That's just embarrassing.

Mind you, he also asked why in XMen DoFP they built stuff out of breakable plastic instead of durable non-ferrous metals. Of course the answer is that Magneto can manipulate non-ferrous metals but then the question becomes why can he do that but not manipulate other non-ferrous substances and the whole Marvel logic starts to collapse.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I'm happy with a lack of technobabble but that doesn't excuse replacing it with blatantly incorrect real science.

So the science is fictions?

Hmm...

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I watched Star Trek VI about two days ago and thought Nichelle Nichols was a pretty woman

The crew were given a uniforms from Trek II onward that cleverly obscured the steadily expanding waist-lines that most of them were dealing with. Nichelle was not obese but she was chunkier than she was in TOS (and even TMP) and definitely not in the sort of shape you'd want to be for a strip-tease. This is probably why, as they filmed the scene, they tried to hide her middle and focus on flashing her legs.

I also think it's no particular badge of honor for a woman to be put into a strip-tease scene whether they can carry it off or not. It's objectification.

Maybe.

But, I guess the Carol Marcus strip-tease and the Uhura fan-dance didn't really move the plot along in a clever way....so it can be argued that both were objectification.

I think it should have fit in with the character we've known for years or at least actually had a reason to be in the movie other than 'Uhura is a lovely woman.' This goes in hand with the Scotty/Uhura scene, as well as Scotty's head vs. the bulkhead scene and so forth.

Exactly. Uhura as a character was much better served when she threatened the transporter operator in Trek III.

The strip-tease is a low-brow Looney Tunes way of having the characters try to get out of a jam. It's just bad writing.

I can agree with that.

I'm not defending the Uhura fan dance as strong feminist writing, but I think it's believable that someone would find Uhura's fan dance appealing. She is a lovely woman at any age, and sex appeal isn't limited to the young and thin.

 

[Franklin]

Probably likeable, relatable characters and a complete lack of technobabble.

Exactly so.

Whatever they did obviously has made Trek accessible to a general audience, because these movies are the most successful Trek productions ever.

I'm happy with a lack of technobabble but that doesn't excuse replacing it with blatantly incorrect real science. Do a little bit of research guys. My friend's 7 year old was pointing out scientific howlers. That's just embarrassing.

Mind you, he also asked why in XMen DoFP they built stuff out of breakable plastic instead of durable non-ferrous metals. Of course the answer is that Magneto can manipulate non-ferrous metals but then the question becomes why can he do that but not manipulate other non-ferrous substances and the whole Marvel logic starts to collapse.

There are howlers in most Trek episodes over all five series. Should we blush at those, too? At best, Trek has always been loosely based on real science. Very loosely. So why be so harsh this one time? It's an imaginary world with its own imaginary physics. Same as "Star Wars" or any other franchise in that genre.

"Gravity" wasn't supposed to be science fiction per se, but there were tremendous howlers in it. If a movie trying to portray something as more or less true to life can blatantly violate simple rules of physics, then let's give Trek some slack.

 

[Ryan8bit]

There are howlers in most Trek episodes over all five series. Should we blush at those, too?

Are there any quite like the cold fusion one?

 

[Franklin]

There are howlers in most Trek episodes over all five series. Should we blush at those, too?

Are there any quite like the cold fusion one?

Genesis. Genesis trumps everything. That is the most far-fetched piece of science ever created in the Trek world. If we can buy Genesis, we should have no problem buying cold fusion or even red matter, for that matter.

 

[Ryan8bit]

There are howlers in most Trek episodes over all five series. Should we blush at those, too?

Are there any quite like the cold fusion one?

Genesis. Genesis trumps everything. That is the most far-fetched piece of science ever created in the Trek world. If we can by Genesis, we should have no problem with cold fusion or red matter, for that matter.

The point was not about farfetched science though. It was about taking an existing science term and applying it wrongly to something. I can't think of too many deliberate instances of that in prior Trek because they used technobabble instead. I'd prefer that, and red matter is fine by me.

 

[Franklin]

Are there any quite like the cold fusion one?

Genesis. Genesis trumps everything. That is the most far-fetched piece of science ever created in the Trek world. If we can by Genesis, we should have no problem with cold fusion or red matter, for that matter.

The point was not about farfetched science though. It was about taking an existing science term and applying it wrongly to something. I can't think of too many deliberate instances of that in prior Trek because they used technobabble instead. I'd prefer that, and red matter is fine by me.

Meh. For all we know, the term "cold fusion device" was short-hand for something more technical or it was descriptive of what the device did: flash-freeze things and fuse them together.

Technobabble was an attempt to have one's cake and eat it, too. Try to sound scientific when what is being said is seventy-five percent or more pure nonsense and could sometimes grind a story to a halt. Technobabble was no different than saying "cold fusion device," I'd say, except it used a lot more words.

 

[Ryan8bit]

Technobabble was no different than saying "cold fusion device," I'd say, except it used a lot more words.

Red matter, Genesis device, etc, aren't really that many words. And there is a difference. One is deliberately made up, the other is taken from something real and used wrongly.

 

[Commishsleer]

There are howlers in most Trek episodes over all five series. Should we blush at those, too?

Are there any quite like the cold fusion one?

Genesis. Genesis trumps everything. That is the most far-fetched piece of science ever created in the Trek world. If we can buy Genesis, we should have no problem buying cold fusion or even red matter, for that matter.

What about the Nexus?
Or even all the god-like beings in Star Trek?

 

[BillJ]

Meh. For all we know, the term "cold fusion device" was short-hand for something more technical or it was descriptive of what the device did: flash-freeze things and fuse them together.

This is what I figured was going on. Even if they did just get it flat wrong, it's no skin off of my rear.

 

[Alex1939]

And what are these "things" he refers to that make "it" accessible to a "general audience"? My guess is that's bar fights and boobies.

Probably likeable, relatable characters and a complete lack of technobabble.

Exactly so.

Whatever they did obviously has made Trek accessible to a general audience, because these movies are the most successful Trek productions ever.

Just like the Phantom Menace made Star Wars accessible to a general audience, because it was the most successful Star Wars production EVA!

 

[CorporalClegg]

because it was the most successful Star Wars production EVA!

Not really. There's only about 120m that separates TPM and Star Wars, and they came out 20 years apart.

In adjusted, Star Wars is almost twice as high.

OTOH, ST09 is the most successful in both actual and adjusted.

So I'm not really sure what your argument is.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Probably likeable, relatable characters and a complete lack of technobabble.

Exactly so.

Whatever they did obviously has made Trek accessible to a general audience, because these movies are the most successful Trek productions ever.

Just like the Phantom Menace made Star Wars accessible to a general audience, because it was the most successful Star Wars production EVA!

When was Star Wars not accessible to the General Audience? SW has got to be one of the most accessible/popular franchises ever across several media platforms.

 

[Smellmet]

There are howlers in most Trek episodes over all five series. Should we blush at those, too?

Are there any quite like the cold fusion one?

Genesis. Genesis trumps everything. That is the most far-fetched piece of science ever created in the Trek world. If we can buy Genesis, we should have no problem buying cold fusion or even red matter, for that matter.

I never thought Genesis was any more far fetched than most things in Trek. Re-arranging molecules so they form life is no worse than the thing that has been used in nearly every episode and movie of trek for 50 years - the transporter.