"Only twelve like it in the fleet."
- Thread starter JonnyQuest037
- Start date
My interpretation of the "12 like her" statement is that there were 12 active Starship/Constitution-class wessels at the time of Kirk's statement, not that 12 was the upper limit or that there must forever and always be only 12.
I work in retail, if someone calls my store asking for availability of a particular item, and I say we have 12 in stock, that doesn't mean that we will always have 12 in stock. We could sell 3 that day, making 9 in stock. Then the next day get half a dozen sent back in on a delivery, making 15.
For all Kirk knew, the next batch of Connies could have been due for commissioning the following Tuesday. It's a throwaway line, no more relevant than Voyager having 38 photon torpedoes.
I work in retail, if someone calls my store asking for availability of a particular item, and I say we have 12 in stock, that doesn't mean that we will always have 12 in stock. We could sell 3 that day, making 9 in stock. Then the next day get half a dozen sent back in on a delivery, making 15.
For all Kirk knew, the next batch of Connies could have been due for commissioning the following Tuesday. It's a throwaway line, no more relevant than Voyager having 38 photon torpedoes.
Yes, that's pretty much my interpretation as well. But I think it's useful for pointing to the general size of Starfleet at the time.
I'm sometimes amazed that people will hear the line and think that there are only 12 ships in the fleet, not that there are 12 ships of Enterprise's type. Space is big. Surely they'd realize that more than 12 ships are needed to do all the things Starfleet needs to do out there.
If you are accepting that class and registry as "real", then you'd have to move Constitution from the "Older Starships" list to the 11th or 12th slot on the "Active During the 5YM" list, because 1700 appears on the "Star Ship Status" chart in "Court Martial".
Perhaps. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that it was either destroyed or inactive after that episode, though, After all, we never hear it directly mentioned during TOS, AFAIK. That was why I placed it where I did.
I agree. But I don't personally see Starfleet during the TOS era as having more than a few dozen ships total. Maybe 50 on the outside, and that's including freighters & such.
They probably contract out assignments to other fleets, as well. The Antares in "Charlie X" is a merchant marine ship, and while associated with Starfleet, it isn't one of theirs. They wear similar uniforms, but likely just by that limited association. It's strictly a UESPA ship, not a Starfleet one.
OK, fair enough. It's possible I was being too literal with the list titles, since "Court Marial" itself is within the 5YM, so I figured that's the list it should appear in. (Plus, you also have Constellation, Intrepid and Defiant in that list, and they were all lost/destroyed during the 5YM.)
But I checked, and it looks like "Court Martial" falls seven episodes before "Tomorrow is Yesterday", so Constitution could indeed have been lost after that episode, but before Kirk provided the number to Captain Christopher, even though it's a rather narrow window!
All of which I noted in my initial post.
Well, there's a reason for that. Logically you're right, even fictionally you're right, because a sensible person must decide 12 starships can't be everywhere, as they did in Trek later on. However, the intent at the time was 12 starships in the fleet, period, as stated in Making of Star Trek.
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You have to keep in mind just how powerful these ships were supposed to be. General Order 24... In terms of destructive power, how many do you need?! Then you think about it a bit more, and you realize that no matter how powerful they are, they can't be everywhere. You have to be someplace to control it. That's where Best of Both Worlds falls apart.
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(It's similar to how those little hand phasers were supposed to be capable of slaughtering multitudes. TOS set out to amaze and push things as far as they could, unaware that sequel series would set themselves a century later, and would have to make TOS seem backward, to make their own shows look more advanced.)
But the way TOS typically referenced "starships" indicated that they were supposed to be a special class of ships, and not all FTL vessels were considered "starships," as the term was later corrupted to mean. There's plenty of room for speculating that there were other classes of ships in Starfleet than the Constitution/Starship-class. e.g., the offscreen character description of Kirk having previously commanded a smaller vessel that would have been the equivalent of a destroyer.
I definitely see "starship" as a special class. I'm not sure that ever changed. The name itself evoked something special for me as a kid, then. Not any old FTL ship qualifies, just as not all ships are aircraft carriers.
I am saying of course that you're right, it can't be just a dozen big ships in Starfleet... but they and we decided that in restrospect. They had a lot to figure out about the show back then. It's unsurprising that they started out with a few ideas that had to change.
Seems like Gene decided it back when he wrote Kirk's character description...doubt only exists because it was never clearly established onscreen, but the creator intent was there while they were making the show.
I didn't believe even that.
There are only twelve like it in the 5th Exploratory Fleet launched out of San Francisco. Or somesuch thing.
Now you're just making up stuff.
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