One thing missing from 'A Time To...'
- Thread starter Destructor
- Start date
Is it? Apart from the latter three "A Time Too" Novels, Articles of the Federation and the books with Section 31 as it's banner, I can't think of any other stories where they play a role, so seven stories, all out over five years ago does not overused a concept make.
All the more reason to keep things covered up and let Picard be on his merry.
And I'd have to check, but wasn't this during the Zife Administration? If you're looking for opportunistic scum in the upper eschelons. . .
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
When you're dealing with a shadowy, behind the scenes organization, less is more. How many people are aware of Section 31 now? Are we supposed to believe that only the people we read about in the books are aware of it's existence? Reed & Archer knew about them in the 22nd century. Kirk told Admirals Stone and Mendez about them in the 23rd century. Picard, Sisko and even Janeway knew about them in the 24th. Even Odo knew of their existence. For a secret organization they're sure not very secret.
And now every time there's a "bad Admiral" the call goes up that they're part of Section 31.
They're like the Borg, overuse is robbing them of what makes them interesting.
And now every time there's a "bad Admiral" the call goes up that they're part of Section 31.
They're like the Borg, overuse is robbing them of what makes them interesting.
I don't think so. The kinds of things that Dougherty was up to? The Federation would never do that. They're *better* than that. Or at least they're supposed to be. They are not evil.
Dougherty collaborated with the Son'a, who clearly *are* murderers, so that makes him complicit in everything they do. Their guilt must be shared.
Picard told her he'd write but like any (space) navy man he forgot about her as soon as the planet left orbit. However he did have a nasty rash which he had to see the Doctor about.
But the Federation still isn't 'evil' by allowing this to go forward. The Federation is not this homogenized entity where everyone and every race embrace the same exact philosophy. If they do then they are truly no better than the Borg. Insurrection shows the Federation is conflicted by two of its core principles... 'the Prime Directive' vs. 'the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few'. Perhaps Insurrection would have been a better film if they had framed the moral dilemma as such. A Federation torn in how to proceed by their own conflicting principles. YMMV.
I don't know what film you watched but in Insurrection the Son'a killed no one. Ru'afo tried but wasn't successful.
I don't know what film you watched but in Insurrection the Son'a killed no one. Ru'afo tried but wasn't successful.
Well, he killed Dougherty. But if we go by the Dougherty shares the blame theory, it was assisted suicide I guess.
I don't know what film you watched but in Insurrection the Son'a killed no one. Ru'afo tried but wasn't successful.
Well, he killed Dougherty. But if we go by the Dougherty shares the blame theory, it was assisted suicide I guess.
I forgot Dougherty!
Thanks for the reminder.
I disagree. Anyone who's seen this film knows that the Ba'ku are in the right. Could you do to them what Dougherty and the Son'a were planning? I think not.
Not *exact* same, no, but there are standards the Federation should - must - uphold. They must set an example.
If I could improve the lives of millions based on moving six hundred people? One hundred percent and I'd sleep good at night after I'd done it.
An example for who?
But they all don't have to be human standards. Morality is not a universal concept. You have one hundred-fifty member worlds, each with races that evolved in different conditions with different needs. That's why I said Insurrection would've been a better film if they had explored some of the Federations inner conflict through the possible Ba'ku relocation. You could have presented an honest debate on the cost of imperialism, a debate about the impact on the imperialistic culture and on the culture that has to be relocated for the 'greater good'.
There were so many great themes that Insurrection could have explored. Instead we got unlikable yuppies, vain aliens who staple their faces to 'look younger' and boob jokes. To this day I feel that Star Trek: Insurrection was the greatest missed opportunity in the history of the franchise.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
If I could improve the lives of millions based on moving six hundred people? One hundred percent and I'd sleep good at night after I'd done it.
And just how many people would have to be threatened with forceable relocation before it would be wrong? A thousand? Ten thousand? A million?
I'll bet that there's lots of independent planets out there with something that could improve the lives of Federation citizens. Are you going to remove them and take over their planets too? Where do you draw the line?
If you're living alone and have a brand new flat screen TV, am I in the right if I take it because I have a large family and we only have a 20 inch tube model that has bad color reproduction? I know the kids would be happier.
If I could improve the lives of millions based on moving six hundred people? One hundred percent and I'd sleep good at night after I'd done it.
And just how many people would have to be threatened with forceable relocation before it would be wrong? A thousand? Ten thousand? A million?
I'll bet that there's lots of independent planets out there with something that could improve the lives of Federation citizens. Are you going to remove them and take over their planets too? Where do you draw the line?
If you're living alone and have a brand new flat screen TV, am I in the right if I take it because I have a large family and we only have a 20 inch tube model that has bad color reproduction? I know the kids would be happier.
We're not talking about entertainment... we're talking about something that could lead to a revolution in medicine (in universe).
Since you took it to one extreme direction... let's take it the other way.
I'll even be nice and actually give you a realistic (in universe) scenario.Let's say the Betazoid population was dying out from disease and the 'metaphasic radiation' could be stripped from the planet rings and fashioned into a cure for them. Do you deny them the ability to save themselves so six hundred Ba'ku can continue to squat on a planet they're not even native to?
I thought "he lost— as in 'misplaced'— the ship" was marvelous, incidentally.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
We're not talking about entertainment... we're talking about something that could lead to a revolution in medicine (in universe).
Since you took it to one extreme direction... let's take it the other way.
Let's say the Betazoid population was dying out from disease and the 'metaphasic radiation' could be stripped from the planet rings and fashioned into a cure for them. Do you deny them the ability to save themselves so six hundred Ba'ku can continue to squat on a planet they're not even native to?
The Romulans aren't native to their planet either. Does that give you the right to go and take whatever you want?
The Baku are there. It's their planet. You go to them, explain the situation and ask them to help. You don't hide and plan to kidnap them and take the planet and it's resources out from under them.
Humans aren't native to North America either. I guess that means it's open season on everyone.
Well there are Native Americans who were here well before the Europeans. No one seemed to have a problem with them being shoved off their land and prospering from it and I don't see anyone offering to give their property to them.
^ First off, there's not enough of them left for us to give them all "their" land. Second, all of that happened before any of us were born, so there's nothing we can do about it now anyway.
