"...one crew, a Starfleet crew." Really...WHY?

[Gotham Central]

So I was watching "Learning Curve" the other day and it got me thinking about Chakotay and Janeway's decision to press the Maquis into Starfleet service. If you think about it, one wonders why more of the Maquis did not object to their forced enlistment? After all, many of them never went to SFA and i'm sure had no interest in Starfleet. Yet they were essentially told that if you want to get home, you've got to put on the uniform and salute.

Now this reality might have made sense if the Janeway had some kind of rule that only Starfleet personnel will be allowed to live and work on Voyager. However, that was NEVER the case. Neelix and Kes, people who volunteered to tag along, were never forced to enlist. Indeed, on several occasions, Tuvok seemed derrisive of the idea of Neelix in Starfleet.

The situation only gets worse when 7 of 9 joins the crew. She has duty assignments and people can be forced to take order/directions from her. She was essentially Voyager's science officer. Yet despite her role on Voyager, she too was exempt from being part of the "Starfleet crew."

So going back to "Learning Curve," its kind of insulting that those Maquis members, who simply wanted to do their part to get everyone home, were forced to endure Starfleet training. One would think that the presence of civilians should have caused some discord amongst the Maquis who were also civilians.

 

[Brit]

"Learning Curve" also showed exactly why they had to be a starfleet crew with starfleet discipline, remember how Dalby got into trouble in the first place. He was repairing a gel pack. Now repairing a gel pack isn't wrong in and of itself but he did it without authorization and without clearing anything. His repair was done at the wrong time shutting down systems all over the ship. You cannot have people running around doing things good or bad just because the spirit moved them.

And for good measure, some people may not have worn the uniform, but they had to be considered part of the crew and were required to follow ship protocol and were subject to Officer's orders.

Finally Chakotay said it very well in "Caretaker."

TORRES: Who is she to be making these decisions for all of us?

CHAKOTAY: She's the captain.

Brit

 

[SilentP]

He was repairing a gel pack. Now repairing a gel pack isn't wrong in and of itself but he did it without authorization and without clearing anything. His repair was done at the wrong time shutting down systems all over the ship. You cannot have people running around doing things good or bad just because the spirit moved them.

I wouldn't call this a lack of Starfleet discipline, I'd call it sloopy engineering practice. While I can't remember the specifics of that episode, it would be 'common sense' to alert your engineering superior that you're about to muck about with the systems.

TORRES: Who is she to be making these decisions for all of us?

CHAKOTAY: She's the captain.

Admittedly, this is true. A ship's Captain is ruler of said ship, otherwise it can't really function. However, running roughshod over the people onboard can be a recipe for disaster.

 

[AuntKate]

When you've lost everything, including familiar stars to navigate by, you need some system of life to hang onto. By being a "Starfleet ship," they are adopting the entire lifestyle--everything from the way work is scheduled to the principles used in dealing with aliens to how the hierarchy is set up. Sticking with that "known" element (for the majority of the crew, anyway), lets them focus on the more important things--like survival. I'm not saying that, over time, they couldn't make modifications to the Starfleet practices, but I do think it makes good sense, at first, to use a time-tested and well-organized system to run the ship and crew in a fair way. Even the banning of jewelry (like Chell's huge necklace or the Bajoran earring) while on duty makes sense to me, if they could become tangled up in equipment, etc. To me, that isn't "running roughshod" when all members of the crew are being treated the same way.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

I found it strange that at least one or two Maquis didn't just outright refuse to do it.

I don't mean like the group of Maquis-Misfits we saw Tuvok training who were just kind of surly or whatever.

I mean actually saying that they refused to have any part in working with Fleeters.

 

[Tallis Rhul]

Indeed, on several occasions, Tuvok seemed derrisive of the idea of Neelix in Starfleet.

There was a very good reason for that.

 

[kimc]

I found it strange that at least one or two Maquis didn't just outright refuse to do it.

I don't mean like the group of Maquis-Misfits we saw Tuvok training who were just kind of surly or whatever.

I mean actually saying that they refused to have any part in working with Fleeters.

Well they had already made the decision to follow Chakotay to the death so when he decided to follow Janeway it would make sense that they would trust his decision.

 

[Anwar]

And besides, Chakotay himself was a former Fleeter himself and likely would have run his Maquis Cell with said Fleet knowledge. So it wouldn't have been as much of a change as most think.

Unlike someone like Eddington, Chakotay was not a traitor. He formally resigned his commission and THEN joined the Maquis, and betrayed no secrets in the process.

 

[JB2005]

Well they had already made the decision to follow Chakotay to the death so when he decided to follow Janeway it would make sense that they would trust his decision.

Actually, the Maquis weren't suicidal. The problem with Al'Quaeda is they have messed with the idea of a terrorist, generally a terrorist does not intend his own death, or even the deaths of others. Death is merely a by-product, the goal of terrorism is in order to cause terror, in order to further the goals of the terrorist.

Chakotay's men and women were following him because they shared a common goal of causing terror among the cardassians and the federation, once they were 70,000 light years away, their reason to follow him was removed.

 

[JustKate]

^ I don't entirely agree. Their initial reason for following him disappeared, yes. But he was still the same leader that they'd followed. They'd still have loyalty to him personally, even though the cause had become a moot point.

Edit: I've never served in the armed forces, but people who have have told me, many times, that in the end, the real reason you fight is to protect the people you're serving with. The underlying cause of country and flag or whatever might still be there, but even when that becomes difficult to remember in the heat of battle, you fight because otherwise you'll let your buddies down. The U.S. Marine Corps calls it esprit de corps.

 

[JB2005]

^ But if their CO ordered them to become sub-ordinate to a formerly enemy commander, I'm unsure if the unit would just fall into line...

 

[JustKate]

^ Ah, well, I'm not sure either! Personally, I think it would have been much better if it had taken a little time for the blended crew to gel. Others (Anwar, for one) have come up with some fascinating ways that this issue might have been handled that would have given us a better show. But TPTB...apparently they wanted everything hunky-dory right away. Oh, well.

 

[DonIago]

The espirit de corps mention makes me wonder what tends to happen to those soldiers who don't end up feeling that way about their comrades. I mean, I don't connect easily with people, and while I can understand patriotism and fighting for others on general principle, I wonder what happens to the notion of fighting for your buddies if you regard your fellow soldiers more as people you happen to work with than actual friends.

Pardon me while I ramble.

It would have been interesting to see one or more Maquis who, when faced with 'the Starfleet way or the highway' chose the highway without being, for instance, Seska. It might have been more realistic as well. I wonder how many people stayed only because they didn't feel they had a better option. It might have been interesting if they'd run into Equinox earlier in the show's run, and perhaps hadn't discovered their means of propulsion so quickly.

 

[Anwar]

And what would those people have done once they found out Equinox's secret? Then they'd be doubly screwed because not only did they sign on with genocidal maniacs, they also alienated themselves from the decent folk on the other ship whose only request was "please follow the rules that help you live".

 

[Bluesteel]

And what would those people have done once they found out Equinox's secret? Then they'd be doubly screwed because not only did they sign on with genocidal maniacs, they also alienated themselves from the decent folk on the other ship whose only request was "please follow the rules that help you live".

They would be pleased that they were going home faster.

And besides, Chakotay himself was a former Fleeter himself and likely would have run his Maquis Cell with said Fleet knowledge. So it wouldn't have been as much of a change as most think.

Unlike someone like Eddington, Chakotay was not a traitor. He formally resigned his commission and THEN joined the Maquis, and betrayed no secrets in the process.

Eddington didn't betray any secrets.

 

[DonIago]

Eddington did commit treason (breaking his oath to Starfleet) and espionage (sabotaging the Defiant and DS9) and theft (industrial replicators) though.

Plus there was the attack on the Excelsior-class ship and the poisoning of the Cardassian planet and attacks on their ships.

 

[Anwar]

I'd say rigging the Defiant full of viruses and giving the Industrial Replicators to the Maquis counts as betraying secrets.

And I doubt the people who were mostly civilians who were fighting for their homes would be A-Okay with committing genocide on innocent SENTIENT LIFE, seeing how that's what they were afraid would happen to them.

People don't just fall apart and give up on every shred of morality just because they're in a rough situation, despite what NuBSG tells us.

 

[Gotham Central]

When you've lost everything, including familiar stars to navigate by, you need some system of life to hang onto. By being a "Starfleet ship," they are adopting the entire lifestyle--everything from the way work is scheduled to the principles used in dealing with aliens to how the hierarchy is set up. Sticking with that "known" element (for the majority of the crew, anyway), lets them focus on the more important things--like survival. I'm not saying that, over time, they couldn't make modifications to the Starfleet practices, but I do think it makes good sense, at first, to use a time-tested and well-organized system to run the ship and crew in a fair way. Even the banning of jewelry (like Chell's huge necklace or the Bajoran earring) while on duty makes sense to me, if they could become tangled up in equipment, etc. To me, that isn't "running roughshod" when all members of the crew are being treated the same way.

The point is that the Maquis did not need to be pressed into SF service just to integrate them into a new community. As shown with Neelix, Kes and Seven, civilians can function on the ship and still be an integral part of the crew.

Ironically, Barkley's original simulation of the Voyager crew was based on the idea that the Maquis were allowed to stay civilians.

 

[Anwar]

Then how would they operate as part of the existing chain of command? Kes was the Nurse, Neelix their defacto ambassador/xenospecialist and Seven the science officer. 3 individuals to manage, no problem. But around 2 dozen people? All outside the chain of command?

 

[JustKate]

I always thought - not to say I'm right, but this is how I interpreted it - that Janeway added the Maquis to the crew because she wanted everybody to feel as though they were all part of the same team? I'm not saying that in real life it would have worked smoothly, at least not as quickly as it did on Voyager, but I thought her intentions were good. I know they had different insignia...but still, same uniform, same regulations. To Janeway, Starfleet was a wonderful institution, and in adding the Maquis to it even on a provisional basis, she was trying to say, "You're one of us. We're all in this together."