Once Upon A Time Season 4

[Admiral2]

I broke down and finally watched Frozen a few months ago, after the Once storyline was announced. Thought it was actually pretty good... although I'm having trouble understanding why it's become the mammoth hit it's become, since the story doesn't seem all that original or groundbreaking.

Unless it all really does just come down to kids loving the funny little snowman character.

It's groundbreaking by comparison to almost every other Disney film ever made. The prince is not the hero, the villainess is not actually a villain and the act of true love doesn't involve the prince and the princess riding off in a chariot. I don't know what would have to be in it for you to consider it "groundbreaking", but what i saw was enough or me.

 

[Dream]

I haven't seen Frozen because I don't want to hear "Let It Go!" but I really enjoyed the premiere episode a lot and so far the ice queen isn't related to anyone in the main cast.

The show's ratings nosed rived in season 2! Must be midseason thing!

I think season 2.5 put off many viewers. The writing during that period was very poor.

Looking at the graph, episode 2x11 which was the first episode after the winter break did fine, but the ratings took a nose dive during episodes 2x12 and 2x13. Those were the Regina gets framed and Bella teams up with Mulan episodes. The less said about the Greg and Tamara plot, the better.

But splitting season 3 into a two arcs with two main villains was a brilliant move by ABC. The ratings were stable, and the season 3 finale was comparable to seasons 2's season finale ratings from a year earlier.

 

[Dream]

I broke down and finally watched Frozen a few months ago, after the Once storyline was announced. Thought it was actually pretty good... although I'm having trouble understanding why it's become the mammoth hit it's become, since the story doesn't seem all that original or groundbreaking.

Unless it all really does just come down to kids loving the funny little snowman character.

I love Frozen mainly for its two very strong female lead characters. That is a very rare thing these days in movies and tv. Everything else about the movie like animation, songs, and characters is top notch.

I feel like a big part of Frozen's popularity is Elsa who has become a breakout character. Many people from all age groups relate to her problems, and see that she is quite an complex character. Young girls absolutely adore her.

Also I think this page makes some good points about Frozen's popularity

http://gailsimone.tumblr.com/post/93023863285/about-frozen#_=_

 

[davejames]

It's groundbreaking by comparison to almost every other Disney film ever made. The prince is not the hero, the villainess is not actually a villain and the act of true love doesn't involve the prince and the princess riding off in a chariot. I don't know what would have to be in it for you to consider it "groundbreaking", but what i saw was enough or me.

Maybe, but one of the main characters still seems pretty wrapped up in her love for a man (even if he does end up being a villain), and there's lots of familiar bickering with the new guy before they finally fall for each other. And of course there are still the cutesy sidekicks in the snowman and reindeer, and the songs about feeling misunderstood, etc.

All in all, it felt much more to me like an old-fashioned throwback to the Little Mermaid/Beauty and the Beast era of Disney. Which I'm not saying is a bad thing, because it was still a really well executed movie.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I broke down and finally watched Frozen a few months ago, after the Once storyline was announced. Thought it was actually pretty good... although I'm having trouble understanding why it's become the mammoth hit it's become, since the story doesn't seem all that original or groundbreaking.

Unless it all really does just come down to kids loving the funny little snowman character.

It's groundbreaking by comparison to almost every other Disney film ever made. The prince is not the hero, the villainess is not actually a villain and the act of true love doesn't involve the prince and the princess riding off in a chariot. I don't know what would have to be in it for you to consider it "groundbreaking", but what i saw was enough or me.

Exactly. It really subverts a lot of the traditional Disney tropes and expands the sweep of their message. Not that there's anything particularly wrong with the traditional Disney tropes, but it gives more power to the "true love conquers all" theme by involving new relationships and character dynamics.

 

[Mr Light]

"Once" was a show I only vaguely liked in the first two years. It wasn't until the Pan storyline in S3 that I really got into the show. I really liked the season premiere; I liked that it was basically Frozen: The Sequel. It was particularly cool that we even got to see the trolls and the ice monster and Sven!

 

[Admiral2]

It's groundbreaking by comparison to almost every other Disney film ever made. The prince is not the hero, the villainess is not actually a villain and the act of true love doesn't involve the prince and the princess riding off in a chariot. I don't know what would have to be in it for you to consider it "groundbreaking", but what i saw was enough or me.

Maybe, but one of the main characters still seems pretty wrapped up in her love for a man (even if he does end up being a villain), and there's lots of familiar bickering with the new guy before they finally fall for each other. And of course there are still the cutesy sidekicks in the snowman and reindeer, and the songs about feeling misunderstood, etc.

All in all, it felt much more to me like an old-fashioned throwback to the Little Mermaid/Beauty and the Beast era of Disney. Which I'm not saying is a bad thing, because it was still a really well executed movie.

So...you would have referred a full-length Gargoyles feature where Elisa Maza comes out as an activist lebian? (No songs, no pining for men and nothing cute about gargoyles. you'd be covered all the way.)

 

[davejames]

Huh? All I'm saying is I didn't find it to be as revolutionary or original as others have (or at least any more than other movies like Tangled or Brave). I'm not saying it's a bad movie by any stretch.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Anna wasn't really in love with Hans by the way. She was infatuated with a puppy love.

For my money, the truly groundbreaking thing about Frozen is that Elsa mortally wounds Anna, yet is not evil. That's a first in a Disney fairy tale, as far as I know. The only thing that saves Anna is her true love for her sister.

 

[Guy Gardener]

What a cop out.

(I'm an only child.)

(I'm an only adult?)

True love is easy when you're rich and you don't have to put out.

Love is about doing awful things to keep someone happy.

Love is sacrifice.

(A relationship is many things, but that, above is what love is.)

Princesses don't have to do awful things and they don't know shit about sacrifice.

The kid playing Kristoff, and the male lead from the new sitcom Manhattan Love Story (Didn't they realize that that show about inventing the Bomb has a ten week lead on them?), where the two lads punching the crap out of each other in Greek to get Spencer (Kelsey's daughter) Grammer's attention in Greek, and they both got a new job, or at least their "new" shows aired right on top of one another... We're not going to see Krisoff again are we?

A couple breaks up when resentment exceeds love. Simple 10th grade accounting.

What happens when Anna and Elsa find out that they're not really sisters, not related at all and they still have all this love for each other that is now allowed to manifest in other ways?

The reverse of what happened in Luke and Leia.

 

[Admiral2]

Huh? All I'm saying is I didn't find it to be as revolutionary or original as others have (or at least any more than other movies like Tangled or Brave). I'm not saying it's a bad movie by any stretch.

I never said you said it was a bad movie. I just for the life of me can't figure out what they would have to do to the movie to get you to acknowledge how original and revolutionary it actually is, and your examples, given a couple posts ago, don't help.

There's a song about feeling? What song isn't about feeling, and what the hell else are you going to put in a musical?

The girl argues with the boy before falling for him? That's a Hollywood trope, not just a Disney one, designed to create romantic tension for the leads. Otherwise they jump in the hay wagon first thing or one of them has to be gay.

And there are cute characters and sidekicks? it's a friggin Disney movie! What do you expect??

I just don't get where you're coming from on this.

What happens when Anna and Elsa find out that they're not really sisters, not related at all and they still have all this love for each other that is now allowed to manifest in other ways?

The reverse of what happened in Luke and Leia.

Yep, pretty much according to half the Frozen fanfic online...

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

...The other half being the same thing, except with no such revelation that they aren't sisters.

Hooray internet.

Mark

 

[Guy Gardener]

Walt Disney is rolling over in his grave!

 

[RJDiogenes]

No, he's frozen. Whoa! Full circle!

 

[Admiral2]

Meanwhile, back on topic...

Can one of you OUAT vets explain to me why Regina's still mayor of Storybrooke after all the stuff she's pulled? Doesn't the place have a city council that can impeach her or something?

 

[Dream]

ABC will reair the "Once Upon a Time" S4 premiere this Sunday at 7/6c. The new episode will be aired afterwards at its regular scheduled time.

http://www.laughingplace.com/w/news/2014/10/01/abc-to-re-air-season-premiere-of-once-upon-a-time/

I guess this is for those people that missed out on the first episode last week.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Meanwhile, back on topic...

Can one of you OUAT vets explain to me why Regina's still mayor of Storybrooke after all the stuff she's pulled? Doesn't the place have a city council that can impeach her or something?

Actually being Mayor is a lot of work?

Are they still drawing wages from municipal funds, which begs the question, is every one still paying local, state and Federal taxes?

If the state couldn't see the invisible town of Storybrook or the last 20 something years... Who has been receiving the townfolkes state and federal taxes?

(Obviously Regina.)

She had a ground hog day thingy going on for the first couple years before Henry turned up, so it's possible that no one did anything but the same days work over and over again, never geting to the weekend and never having to pay their taxes or thing about the fishbowl they happen to be in.

Besides a Mayor is a servant more than a Queen anyway.

 

[Dream]

Can one of you OUAT vets explain to me why Regina's still mayor of Storybrooke after all the stuff she's pulled? Doesn't the place have a city council that can impeach her or something?

Any attempt to force Regina from her position could be dangerous since she is one of only four people in the entire town that can still do magic (only Rumplestiltskin is stronger than her, but he isn't entirely a good guy). I imagine they let her keep the job so she wouldn't cause trouble. Someone might as well do it. Also the story works better with her as mayor since it relates to her past life of being queen.

Looking at the show's history, Regina was a complete villain in the first season. The writers have been trying hard to redeem her due to the character's popularity, you can't have a villain stick around for the entire show and getting away with evil acts, but she keeps falling off the wagon.

The funny thing is that the writers seem to have forgotten the other main characters have jobs. One of the best things about the first season that has sadly been discarded were the mundane lives the main characters lived in the present, contrasted with the fairy tale lives from the flashbacks. Nowadays it is just the main characters fighting the next bad guy.

When was the last time we saw the main characters working? What does Emma do nowadays? It has been ages since Snow White was teaching in a class room. Does Prince Charming even have a job?

Why does Robin Hood still live in the woods? Shouldn't he get a job to provide for his son and recently back from the dead wife?

The only people that I can think of still working is Rumple with his pawn shop, and Granny with the diner. I have no clue where Red disappeared off to.

 

[trekkiebaggio]

Emma is the sheriff. Isn't Charming the deputy? Or did he just help her a few times. Belle is the librarian, Grumpy owned/worked in a hardware store or something? Wasn't one of the other dwarves working in a pharmacy?

 

[Gryffindorian]

Since for all intents and purposes Storybrooke doesn't exist within the realm of the show, I doubt the Federal or State government collects any taxes from the locals. Perhaps when everyone remembered their past in the Enchanted Forest, they decided to adopt some kind of medieval "serfdom" economy, but that's very unlikely and has never been shown.