Santeria
Lieutenant Commander
Was there ever really any doubt once we learned that it was his curse to begin with?
Once Upon a Time (ABC) - 1x02 till the bitter end
- Thread starter Temis the Vorta
- Start date
I've had no doubt since the talk in the apple orchard about episode 4, I believe. I've been surprised any one still had doubts.
The scene in the jail between Regina and Gold is my pick for the best moment of the series so far. Both actors were taking such obvious joy in chewing the scenery and the "Your Majesty" line was just perfectly delivered. If the show can infuse that level of camp and fun into things regularly it would be great.
Another good ep - the psychological underpinnings to this Beauty and the Beast story works better than the Disney version. A true "beast" isn't going to be that easy to tame through True Love(TM) and la de dah. Ultimately, Rumple's problem is that he's still a coward, just a very powerful coward, that's all.
And Rumple's story definitely would have been a great way to take the Star Wars prequels. Anakin must choose between seductively dark power and True Love(TM). Padme makes a valiant effort, but hey, power is power, right?
And Rumple's story definitely would have been a great way to take the Star Wars prequels. Anakin must choose between seductively dark power and True Love(TM). Padme makes a valiant effort, but hey, power is power, right?
At least Rumple has a somewhat justifiable reason for rejecting love: It truly is the end of his power.
Anakin sought dark power FOR love, but it's more compelling that the guy would really be making a huge personal sacrifice (his entire livelihood, all his power) for love and mortality.
And he actually outright says "Power means more to me than love!"...although his actions leave it open enough if he meant that or was totally lying.
I get the feeling that when he was beating the Flower Man he was also venting his own self-hatred over what happened to Belle onto him and that he does blame himself. The bit where he replaces the big fancy gold grail thing with the chipped cup was touching, too.
Anakin sought dark power FOR love, but it's more compelling that the guy would really be making a huge personal sacrifice (his entire livelihood, all his power) for love and mortality.
And he actually outright says "Power means more to me than love!"...although his actions leave it open enough if he meant that or was totally lying.
I get the feeling that when he was beating the Flower Man he was also venting his own self-hatred over what happened to Belle onto him and that he does blame himself. The bit where he replaces the big fancy gold grail thing with the chipped cup was touching, too.
Well that's the problem, Anakin didn't really seek power for love. He was too immature to realize that it's not loving to kill children to save his wife's life, because if she'd been given the choice, she'd prefer to die rather than have children sacrificed to save her. How could he love Padme when he apparently doesn't even understand the first thing about her?
(Of course I'm being flip since the whole story was delivered in such an incoherent fashion that I doubt Lucas really intended that to be the message, but to the extent the scenario makes any sense, it's the story of a cowardly, immature weakling who is manipulated by his own fears into becoming a monster, and love has nothing to do with it.)
Anakin was seeking power because he was too cowardly and weak to face life on his own without having a mommy figure to cling to. He didn't love her, he was dependent on her in a parasitic fashion. So ultimately, Anakin was seeking power for the same reason as Rumples - cowardace. At least in Rumpy's case, he seems to have some awareness of his own motives, so I can respect that, vs Anakin's total state of pathetic self-delusion.
(Of course I'm being flip since the whole story was delivered in such an incoherent fashion that I doubt Lucas really intended that to be the message, but to the extent the scenario makes any sense, it's the story of a cowardly, immature weakling who is manipulated by his own fears into becoming a monster, and love has nothing to do with it.)
Anakin was seeking power because he was too cowardly and weak to face life on his own without having a mommy figure to cling to. He didn't love her, he was dependent on her in a parasitic fashion. So ultimately, Anakin was seeking power for the same reason as Rumples - cowardace. At least in Rumpy's case, he seems to have some awareness of his own motives, so I can respect that, vs Anakin's total state of pathetic self-delusion.
That's just an inherent problem with a "Hero becomes villain" story, it's pretty hard to do when they'd already described Anakin as a Mary-Sue type epic hero. To start with, Mary Sues are just inherently boring and then it's harder to have a Mary Sue fall in a way that still retains sympathy.
Rump though, was not a Mary Sue before his "Fall" but rather a total coward we were never meant to see as heroic. So it wasn't a hero falling as it was a semi-bad guy becoming worse.
Rump though, was not a Mary Sue before his "Fall" but rather a total coward we were never meant to see as heroic. So it wasn't a hero falling as it was a semi-bad guy becoming worse.
Obi-Wan described Anakin as a Mary Sue to Luke, in the context of lying like a rug about everything else.
So I think that tale could have been finessed into "Anakin was a great Jedi, a courageous warrior, charismatic as hell and a wonderful friend, but with the fatal flaw of hubris that none of us really saw until it was too late, including your mother. But hey at least he wasn't an annoying whiny little bitch like his son."
I'm okay with what they're doing with the story in The Clone Wars, but I still think the best way to do the story would have been to give Anakin a fatal flaw that could explain his entire fall, yet not render him contemptable or annoying beforehand.
He should have been a perfect golden boy, except for a tendency to believe his own press releases about being The Chosen One. Arrogance can be kind of charming in an otherwise charismatic, intelligent, sensitive and moral guy; power hungriness might just be a healthy degree of ambition.
There was never any need for the character to be some annoyingly perfect Mary Sue, and in fact, that wouldn't have made any sense.
So I think that tale could have been finessed into "Anakin was a great Jedi, a courageous warrior, charismatic as hell and a wonderful friend, but with the fatal flaw of hubris that none of us really saw until it was too late, including your mother. But hey at least he wasn't an annoying whiny little bitch like his son."
I'm okay with what they're doing with the story in The Clone Wars, but I still think the best way to do the story would have been to give Anakin a fatal flaw that could explain his entire fall, yet not render him contemptable or annoying beforehand.
He should have been a perfect golden boy, except for a tendency to believe his own press releases about being The Chosen One. Arrogance can be kind of charming in an otherwise charismatic, intelligent, sensitive and moral guy; power hungriness might just be a healthy degree of ambition.
There was never any need for the character to be some annoyingly perfect Mary Sue, and in fact, that wouldn't have made any sense.
^^ No need to try to make sense of it. George Lucas is just shallow.
This was a great episode. I had little doubt that Mr Gold knew everything, but it made a great scene to have both Rumpelstiltskin and the Evil Queen come out to each other.
This brings up the question, though, of what the exact relationship is between the characters in Fairy Tale World and this world. Are they physically the same people, but transmogrified in some cases-- Rumpy is human, Jiminy Cricket is human, Mirror Guy is human-- or are they magic doppelgangers? If Belle was killed in the other world, how is she alive in this one-- or did the Evil Queen lie about her suicide?
This was a great episode. I had little doubt that Mr Gold knew everything, but it made a great scene to have both Rumpelstiltskin and the Evil Queen come out to each other.
This brings up the question, though, of what the exact relationship is between the characters in Fairy Tale World and this world. Are they physically the same people, but transmogrified in some cases-- Rumpy is human, Jiminy Cricket is human, Mirror Guy is human-- or are they magic doppelgangers? If Belle was killed in the other world, how is she alive in this one-- or did the Evil Queen lie about her suicide?
Given that she "died" offscreen, according to the Evil Queen of all people, I think we can take any talk of her tragic demise with a grain of salt.
I'm guessing that she ends ups the OUAT equivalent of Rapunzel, locked away in a tower by a wicked witch. I figure if Rumple can also be the Beast, there's no reason Beauty can't also be Rapunzel. The show seems to like mashing fairy tales together . . . .
Hey, they already meshed Snow White with "Snow White and Rose Red" by having her and Red Riding Hood be close pals.
Yeah, but we were meant to truly believe he actually WAS all those awesome things rather than have it all be lies by Obi-Wan. And he was still renowned by other people as "the greatest pilot I'd ever seen" and stuff. He was textbook Mary Sue, a guy we were never meant to see but rather imagine in our minds.
Yeah, but we were meant to truly believe he actually WAS all those awesome things rather than have it all be lies by Obi-Wan. And he was still renowned by other people as "the greatest pilot I'd ever seen" and stuff. He was textbook Mary Sue, a guy we were never meant to see but rather imagine in our minds.
Being Obi-Wan's buddy and being a great pilot are just two qualities. It leaves open many possibilities for good or ill.
Did anyone else notice the art on Rumple's walls. On specific one is "The Unicorn in Captivity".
Check this link and the accompanying text
http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/search-the-collections/70007568
Check this link and the accompanying text
http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/search-the-collections/70007568
I loved this episode. The Belle/Rumple story and the Mr. Gold Storybrooke story were actually both really interesting, and the scenes at the end with Gold/Rumpelstiltskin and Regina/The Queen were enough to make the whole episode worth it. And Emily de Ravin was great as Belle. I'm very curious to see exactly were their headed with her story at this point.
Honestly at this point they could dump the whole break the curse storyline, and just focus on the conflict between the Queen and Rumpelstiltskin, and I would be perfectly happy.
Honestly at this point they could dump the whole break the curse storyline, and just focus on the conflict between the Queen and Rumpelstiltskin, and I would be perfectly happy.
^^ Yeah, why did the sheriff start to remember, but no one else?
That seems to be the most likely explanation, but the dichotomy of somebody being alive in one world and dead in the other is interesting.
The Beyonder in Marvel Comics, when creating his battle world for the first Secret Wars in the mid 80s, wanted Doctor Doom to play a part. Lead the bad guys even, he really though that Doom would make for a fun time for every other poor bastard that had to share a planet with him.
SUCH FUN!
Doctor Doom was FORTUNATELY dead.
(His consciousness freejacked an onlooker seconds before Terrax the tamer atomized him with the power Cosmic on the sidewalks of New York City remainding a pothole you could lose a bus in.)
But when has that ever stopped a god?
Because he's about as dim as Sisko's Prophets, the Beyonder looked for a subsequent Doom "replacement" to send to Battleworld in the future. where AMAZINGLY he found one, who then went back in time to Bitchsdlap first Galactus, then the Beyonder, who would then grow up to only be sent back in time again, going through this same game again as if for the first time...
Something is not sitting well?
I think my memories are flawed.
I read these comics 20 years ago.
(They're 5 feet away, but I'm so lazy.)
So why couldn't the Queen have grabbed belle in the past before she died, since it seems that they have travelled into the future to live out this cursre anyway, unless the future is a bigger fairy tale than where they came form.
I mean twilight can't have made that much money unless relaity was a curse dripping with poison.
SUCH FUN!
Doctor Doom was FORTUNATELY dead.
(His consciousness freejacked an onlooker seconds before Terrax the tamer atomized him with the power Cosmic on the sidewalks of New York City remainding a pothole you could lose a bus in.)
But when has that ever stopped a god?
Because he's about as dim as Sisko's Prophets, the Beyonder looked for a subsequent Doom "replacement" to send to Battleworld in the future. where AMAZINGLY he found one, who then went back in time to Bitchsdlap first Galactus, then the Beyonder, who would then grow up to only be sent back in time again, going through this same game again as if for the first time...
Something is not sitting well?
I think my memories are flawed.
I read these comics 20 years ago.
(They're 5 feet away, but I'm so lazy.)
So why couldn't the Queen have grabbed belle in the past before she died, since it seems that they have travelled into the future to live out this cursre anyway, unless the future is a bigger fairy tale than where they came form.
I mean twilight can't have made that much money unless relaity was a curse dripping with poison.
I think it's because they haven't fully given into their feelings yet, they're both resisting falling properly for each other.
The episode was really good, but my favourite little bit was probably in the shop when the guy behind the counter sneezed. I love getting little clues to try and figure out who the background characters are.
And I wonder whether at some point Gaston will be turned back from the flower.
Was I the only one who winced a little when Rumplestiltskin was smashing the cups?
Direct contact with Emma, physically and emotionally?