Old Lke Flint

[LMFAOschwarz]

In Requiem for Methuselah, it is stated that Flint lived in solitude on his planet to escape the 'unpleasantness of life on Earth'.

McCoy discovered in the end that Flint had sacrificed his immortality by leaving Earth, and would live the remainder of a normal life.

A couple of questions. Uhura revealed that the planet hads been purchased by a "Mr. Brack" thirty years earlier. Was this individual supposed to be Flint? If so, he'd been on the planet for thirty years. You would think he'd have noticed himself aging in that time. Ironically, his venture to create the perfect, immortal-like-himself woman was futile, since he was now to age and die like everyone else. That's pretty sad, actually.

Also, did our heroes ever question just how this one human from the distant past gained this ability? Did they ever ponder whether there were any more like him around? How just this one man out of all human history being blessed with immortality is pretty odd...

 

[Egger]

Also, did our heroes ever question just how this one human from the distant past gained this ability? Did they ever ponder whether there were any more like him around? How just this one man out of all human history being blessed with immortality is pretty odd...

Quiet!!! Don't tell anyone. We have enough fountains of youth already!

 

[Melakon]

Perhaps, like Achilles, it involved the river Styx, but instead of being dipped by the heel, his parents tried to drown him.

 

[Emperor Norton]

Flint could be explained as some kind of early, 1-in-a-Hundred-Quadrillion mutation. There are life forms on earth that have immortality, after all. Just not people or anything you'd see in a zoo.

In the expanded universe, btw, it is explained that Flint's dying was just a ruse to get rid of the Enterprise crew and that he was still totally immortal. Sort of horse pucky, because that was not the intent of the writer of the episode nor is it canon.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

In the expanded universe, btw, it is explained that Flint's dying was just a ruse to get rid of the Enterprise crew and that he was still totally immortal.

Which novel/short story/comic is this please?

 

[Emperor Norton]

This I think.

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Coil

 

[F. King Daniel]

In the expanded universe, btw, it is explained that Flint's dying was just a ruse to get rid of the Enterprise crew and that he was still totally immortal.

Which novel/short story/comic is this please?

And over in the New Frontier corner of the novelverse, Morgan "Number One" Primus/Lefler is another Flint-style immortal.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

This I think.

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Coil

Interesting! Quite continuity-heavy it would seem. Must read it...

 

[Emperor Norton]

In the expanded universe, btw, it is explained that Flint's dying was just a ruse to get rid of the Enterprise crew and that he was still totally immortal.

Which novel/short story/comic is this please?

And over in the New Frontier corner of the novelverse, Morgan "Number One" Primus/Lefler is another Flint-style immortal.

I don't really like that Peter David did that. The character was clearly intended to be a human. It's just she was never fleshed out. I dislike that it was taken to do that off-beat thing.

 

[Timewalker]

This was obviously a crossover with Highlander...

In-universe: If you were thousands of years old and started aging suddenly (given Flint's apparent age when he died), it wouldn't necessarily be that obvious at first. It's not like Flint has to do a lot of manual labor, and he no longer has anyone to fight.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Flint could be explained as some kind of early, 1-in-a-Hundred-Quadrillion mutation. There are life forms on earth that have immortality, after all. Just not people or anything you'd see in a zoo.

I'm not quite sure of which life forms you mean. Do you mean, say, yeast? Yeah, I can't imagine a line around the corner waiting to see that exhibit at a zoo.

Oh, and another thing. Flint said that over time on Earth he'd "pretend to age" and move on before his nature was suspected. I assume he wouldn't keep up this practice living alone in his castle on a far-off world. So, was the initial attack by M-4 on the landing party a time-gaining tactic by Flint to "put on his makeup", so to speak?

 

[scotpens]

Also, did our heroes ever question just how this one human from the distant past gained this ability? Did they ever ponder whether there were any more like him around?

There are others like him -- some good, some evil. In the end, there can be only one.

This was obviously a crossover with Highlander...

Oops, you beat me to it.

What would have happened if Kirk and Flint had fought on holy ground?

 

[Timewalker]

Also, did our heroes ever question just how this one human from the distant past gained this ability? Did they ever ponder whether there were any more like him around?

There are others like him -- some good, some evil. In the end, there can be only one.

This was obviously a crossover with Highlander...

Oops, you beat me to it.

What would have happened if Kirk and Flint had fought on holy ground?

Does that rule apply in a fight between Immortals and mortals? I don't recall what the TV series had to say on that.

 

[T'Girl]

Morgan "Number One" Primus/Lefler

The character was clearly intended to be a human.

While I've never read the book sighted, I have considered that Number One might have been non-Human.

It would have increased the number of alien main characters beyond just Spock, and also would have explained Pike's comment about "your different."

 

[2takesfrakes]

Requiem for Methuselah makes no sense, whatsoever, on any level. For one thing, Leonardo da Vinci was a homosexual who was very concerned with his status, image and popularity. Living like a recluse and falling for a robot of his with simulated female features only goes to show how ignorant and uninformed the writers were of this Renaissance Man. Perhaps "Flint" is bi-sexual, I certainly don't have any information on that. But this person's insistance that he's the Master, Leonardo da Vinci does not hold up to scrutiny, on any level.

Also, Leonardo was no stranger to poverty, many times over. So where "they" got this idea that Flint had all of this accumilated wealth is kind of strange. Yes, the King of France did seek out the elderly da Vinci and kept him on his Court, as an ornament, basically. But when he died, his assistants did not make out like bandits. And the name of Johannes Brahms (!!!) thrown into the mix is out of left field, to say the least. Also, Flint's home was kind of squalid, was it not, for someone of such "impeccable taste" and vast resources as Flint.

In short ... if it's possible that Flint could deceive the ENTERPRISE crew as to his newfound mortality, then he was probably lying about who he was, entirely. Flint is an enigma ... and, in that sense, a blank page, really. One where any fan could fill in whatever details that suited them and have their information be, essentially, correct - for all intents and purposes.

 

[Metryq]

Uhura revealed that the planet hads been purchased by a "Mr. Brack" thirty years earlier. Was this individual supposed to be Flint? If so, he'd been on the planet for thirty years. You would think he'd have noticed himself aging in that time.

Since McCoy said Flint would live the remainder of a normal life, perhaps Flint failed to notice. Thirty years is long enough for one to notice the "twinges" that come with age. And Flint was obviously far ahead of the Federation in many technologies. But considering his unusual status, perhaps he neglected to study medicine. After that, a god-like "I have all the time in the world" mind set might have blinded him to his aging.

In the expanded universe, btw, it is explained that Flint's dying was just a ruse to get rid of the Enterprise crew and that he was still totally immortal.

"Flint's dying"? Flint did not die in the episode.

This was obviously a crossover with Highlander...

I realize you're joking, but HIGHLANDER came long after "Requiem," and mythology and sci-fi has had "immortals" since the dawn of time. But as to HIGHLANDER specifically...

What would have happened if Kirk and Flint had fought on holy ground?

In the first HIGHLANDER movie, Ramirez said that the prohibition against fighting on holy ground was "tradition." Nothing more. My own interpretation is that the Gathering was an allusion to Armageddon. No one ever said the "evil" immortals could not fight on holy ground. Perhaps Kruger could have killed MacLeod in the church, but wanted to best him a fight. Or perhaps Satan has his own reasons for following the same rule—pride, home field advantage, or something like that.

While I enjoyed the TV series, it made no sense at all—with the latent immortals, like Richie, the Gathering was pointless, along with the whole "there can be only one" schtick.

Requiem for Methuselah makes no sense, whatsoever, on any level.

Agreed, if one analyzes it at face value. Suppose the episode is an allegory for the immortal battle between passion and rational thought? Flint was not necessarily all those geniuses from history, he merely represented them. There is great "wealth" in both the technology and passion of humanity—and also great tragedy. (Keep in mind that TOS played the anti-war theme many times.)

Rayna Capek, aside from being a clever allusion to R.U.R., symbolized the wonder and "passion" for knowledge. She was a machine, but a sentient one—the pinnacle of mankind's duality. In that duality, beauty is transitory. Sadly, Kirk and Flint "plateaued," pitting their existing technology against the potential future technology. Thus, beauty was used, abused and ultimately destroyed.

The immortal battle would go on (obviously, by definition), but not here and not now.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

For one thing, Leonardo da Vinci was a homosexual who was very concerned with his status, image and popularity.

His sexual orientation remains in debate, as there's no overwhelming period evidence settling that alleged part of his life. On that note, when the episode in question was written, that alleged part of his life was sketchier than what some assume in the present day, so one can hardly criticize the script for suggested inaccuracies.

Moreover--it was science fiction, not a documentary.

Also, Leonardo was no stranger to poverty, many times over. So where "they" got this idea that Flint had all of this accumilated wealth is kind of strange. Yes, the King of France did seek out the elderly da Vinci and kept him on his Court, as an ornament, basically. But when he died, his assistants did not make out like bandits. And the name of Johannes Brahms (!!!) thrown into the mix is out of left field, to say the least. Also, Flint's home was kind of squalid, was it not, for someone of such "impeccable taste" and vast resources as Flint.

Flint held numerous identities; what makes you think he could no accumulate great wealth over several lifetimes?

 

[Melakon]

For one thing, Leonardo da Vinci was a homosexual who was very concerned with his status, image and popularity.

His sexual orientation remains in debate, as there's no overwhelming period evidence settling that alleged part of his life. On that note, when the episode in question was written, that alleged part of his life was sketchier than what some assume in the present day, so one can hardly criticize the script for suggested inaccuracies.

Along with that, criticizing the construction of a female android simply because Leonardo might have been gay is ridiculous. Flint had many identities, that doesn't mean every one of them was gay, even if historical evidence was available to prove it in some cases. We don't know the orientation of any of his fictional identities. It's really putting too much importance on his claim to have been DaVinci.

 

[Ronald Held]

Over ~5000 years it may make sense to have some incarnations gay bi or straight.
As to wealth accumulation he could have gained and lost fortunes many times over before accumulating it again.
With his technological means fooling McCoy's tricorder would be almost trivial seeing as he could shrink the Enterprise into an AMT model sized object.

 

[Timo]

Leonardo would have been a relatively late persona to be assumed by Flint. There's no incentive for him to have kept his personae identical - surely after five thousand years of at most hundred-year stretches of wearing any given identity, he'd want to experiment with at least one homosexual supergenius, one pedophilic moron, and one ascetic autist...

Certainly it would be poor policy for Flint to always flaunt his wealth, as poverty would be more conductive of all the switcheroos plus probably more entertaining in the long run. If the guy did survive for six millennia, it wouldn't make much sense for him to not be both wealthy and influential - in fact to such inhuman degree that he could never go public with either attribute. Most of the pulp novels about secret vampire societies get that right!

But yeah, Flint probably lied about most things when meeting Kirk. What would have been his motivation not to? It's just that I don't see why his lies would have to be considered implausible.

Timo Saloniemi