OK, How Does Starfleet Academy Work Exactly?

[Kamen Rider Blade]

There is no evidence that any schmuck can be a NCO, in fact schmuck status seems to be reserved for your basic Ensign and Lieutenant before the latest movie. As the only one of his kind we have extensive screen time with Chief O'Brian come across more like the Top Soldier, who has been more rigorously selected then the young Ensigns and Lieutenants assigned to his department on DS9

This is the interpretation I take. It seems like the vast majority of people in Starfleet are officers, with the non-comms being an exception.

My guess is that you need a decent amount of training and education to work on a Federation starship, no matter what your job is, and Starfleet would rather take care of that training itself. It also simplifies the rank structure and allows anybody on the ship the opportunity to potentially rise up to be an admiral, making it a true meritocracy. Non-comms are specialists, people who didn't go to the academy but were granted the opportunity to work in Starfleet because of their great knowledge and skill.

This allows both the inclusion of non-comms and Gene Roddenberry's early claim that everyone in TNG's Starfleet was an officier.

I agree with your interpretation.

In the future, I bet they'll probably merge the Non Com into the Officer route and make everybody an Officer in name.

Yet everybody will train in the same basic skills / technologies and learn until they are mature enough to go into the command route if that's what they choose to do.

 

[Nerys Myk]

There is no evidence that any schmuck can be a NCO, in fact schmuck status seems to be reserved for your basic Ensign and Lieutenant before the latest movie. As the only one of his kind we have extensive screen time with Chief O'Brian come across more like the Top Soldier, who has been more rigorously selected then the young Ensigns and Lieutenants assigned to his department on DS9

This is the interpretation I take. It seems like the vast majority of people in Starfleet are officers, with the non-comms being an exception.

My guess is that you need a decent amount of training and education to work on a Federation starship, no matter what your job is, and Starfleet would rather take care of that training itself. It also simplifies the rank structure and allows anybody on the ship the opportunity to potentially rise up to be an admiral, making it a true meritocracy. Non-comms are specialists, people who didn't go to the academy but were granted the opportunity to work in Starfleet because of their great knowledge and skill.

This allows both the inclusion of non-comms and Gene Roddenberry's early claim that everyone in TNG's Starfleet was an officier.

I agree with your interpretation.

In the future, I bet they'll probably merge the Non Com into the Officer route and make everybody an Officer in name.

Yet everybody will train in the same basic skills / technologies and learn until they are mature enough to go into the command route if that's what they choose to do.

Well the "O" in NCO does stand for "officer."

My father was in the USAF. He joined as a kid who hadn't graduated high school and retired as a highly trained technician (and Master Sergeant) who parlayed that training into a long career in the aerospace industry. I don't see why the same can't be true for Starfleet's enlisted.

 

[Star Wolf]

Or Gene was also LAPD where "officer" ranked Lieutenants are treated as ordinary officers but then Captains and Commanders are considered command staff along with the Chiefs. Of course in Trek we have many "command staff" Ensigns and LTs while the bulk of those officers seem to do only the specific duties we are applying to the enlisted and NCO ranks of today's military and Starfleet.

 

[R. Star]

One would have to assume that they don't have a single facility in the whole Federation turning out officers either.

Either, Starfleet Academy is similar to the US Army's relationship with West Point, meaning that it's the premiere academy, but hardly the only place you can get a commission from, or the Academy had multiple installations all across the Federation.

If you have a fleet of thousands of ships and outposts across a Federation that had 300 + worlds, I don't care if the San Fransisco Facility turns out 50,000 people per class with a 100% graduation rate(which we know doesn't happen), that's not gonna cut it.

 

[The Wormhole]

One would have to assume that they don't have a single facility in the whole Federation turning out officers either.

Unfortunately, it does seem to be the case. Just look at the statistics:

In TOS we know Kirk, Spock, Sulu and Chekov did attend the Academy. If you take Trek XI into account, we have proof for everyone except Scotty attending the Academy.

In TNG everyone went to the Academy according to their computer files in Conundrum.

In DS9 Sisko, Bashir, O'Brien, Nog, and Admiral Ross are all confirmed to have attended the Academy. Yes, even the enlisted man attended the Academy, apparentally.

In Voyager we know Janeway, Chakotay, Harry Kim and B'Ellana Torres attended the Academy, and Tuvok even taught there.

Hell, in Enterprise a crewman on the NX-01 somehow had a diploma from Starfleet Academy over ten years before it was even founded.

 

[T'Girl]

In TOS we know Kirk, Spock, Sulu and Chekov did attend the Academy.

No, from that group we only know from dialog that Kirk attended.

True, Spock, Sulu and Chekov all knew a academy slang expression. But I know "wuba" is a derogatory slang expression in the US naval academy for female cadets, and I've never been there.

 

[The Wormhole]

In TOS we know Kirk, Spock, Sulu and Chekov did attend the Academy.

No, from that group we only know from dialog that Kirk attended.

True, Spock, Sulu and Chekov all knew a academy slang expression. But I know "wuba" is a derogatory slang expression in the US naval academy for female cadets, and I've never been there.

The implication in the scene is that McCoy doesn't know what a stunsel is becaue he's never been to the Academy. Since Spock explainsit, and Sulu and Chekov recognise the term, it can be assumed they did. Especially when you factor in that 90% of everyone else in Star Trek is confirmed to have attended, even the enlisted and those around before the Academy was even founded.

 

[Timo]

In TOS we know Kirk, Spock, Sulu and Chekov did attend the Academy.

The case in TOS against Spock ever attending is pretty strong. He's a foreigner in an otherwise all-human service, he never took Kobayashi Maru, he holds high rank without having been in command... Quite probably, he would have brought some papers from Vulcan certifying that he is already qualified to receive a commission to such-and-such rank (and indeed holds comparable rank in the Vulcan forces already), and then attended the necessary ceremonies. Much like T'Pol in ENT.

STXI shows a different tack, which is at least equally likely, but doesn't quite explain why Spock never tackled the no-win scenario, especially when he is so heavily involved in making others tackle it.

In DS9 Sisko, Bashir, O'Brien, Nog, and Admiral Ross are all confirmed to have attended the Academy. Yes, even the enlisted man attended the Academy, apparentally.

Not really. The only piece of dialogue that ostensibly connects O'Brien to the Academy actually establishes the exact opposite - O'Brien is asked, in jest, if he was taught temporal mechanics at the Academy, and the answer is an obvious no.

Hell, in Enterprise a crewman on the NX-01 somehow had a diploma from Starfleet Academy over ten years before it was even founded.

We don't have founding dates for all the Starfleet Academies out there. Earth might have had a dozen before surrendering its independence to the Federation. And for the record, the diploma holder should be properly credited as Ensign, as "crewman" carries enlisted connotations not applying here at all (not to mention suggests the wrong gender).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

The case in TOS against Spock ever attending is pretty strong. He's a foreigner in an otherwise all-human service, he never took Kobayashi Maru, he holds high rank without having been in command... Quite probably, he would have brought some papers from Vulcan certifying that he is already qualified to receive a commission to such-and-such rank (and indeed holds comparable rank in the Vulcan forces already), and then attended the necessary ceremonies. Much like T'Pol in ENT.

Well, for what it's worth, novels do feature Spock attending the Academy.

And for the record, the diploma holder should be properly credited as Ensign, as "crewman" carries enlisted connotations not applying here at all (not to mention suggests the wrong gender).

Well, I forgot what the character's rank was, so I figured I'd be safe with crewman. And since modern militaries apply terms like "Airman" or "Seaman" to both males and females, I assumed Crewman could be applied to both as well. Indeed, there have been females referred to as "Crewman." Off the top of my head, Crewman Cutler.

 

[Timo]

Fair enough. OTOH, I don't think Trek has ever explicitly insisted that a commissioned officer could be addressed as "crewman" (to the contrary, Picard in "Where No One" calls a pipless woman "Ensign"), so let's cling to that for now, shall we?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

Well, when I said "Crewman" I was really just tryiing to say "member of the crew." Sloppy yes, but Trek has made many such sloppy mistakes. No reason a Trek fan can't.

 

[Star Wolf]

How is crewman wrong? It is Starfleet where Captain Janeway is a rebel because she doesn't want to be called sir.