Oh God, Not a Ferengi Episode!

[scottydog]

Yes, I know this has been talked about to death in here. How most of us dread the Ferengi episodes. Just as Wesley Crusher ruined many a good TNG episode, the Ferengi have the same effect on DS9.

I'm rewatching season 3 and there is one incredibly great kick-ass episode after another -- "The Visionary" and "Improbably Cause" and "The Die is Cast" are all masterpieces, in my opinion.

And then "Family Business" comes along. Ouch. All that wonderful momentum is gone.

I always say with great pride that DS9 is my favorite trek series. How sad that such a great body of work is tarnished by the Ferengi episodes.

It's not that the Quark and Rom and Nog are bad characters; on the contrary, I think they play an important role in the series. A background role. They should never, EVER, under any circumstances, be any more than supporting characters. As simple exaggerated caricatures of a patriarchal hyper-greedy society, they just aren't interesting enough to carry an episode on their own.

Why didn't the makers of DS9 realize this???

 

[Kegek]

DS9 isn't my favourite series - it's tied with its two predecessors for that honour - but I do love the Ferengi.

Quark, Rom, Nog, Brunt. Less so Zek and Ishka. Ferengi are hilarious. I'm rewatching the show, and we've had "The Nagus" and "The Rules of Acquisition" so far - and I can't wait for "The House of Quark".

There are stuff I didn't quite like about DS9. The silly pah-wraiths. The Jem'Hadar were just Klingons only more grumpy. The Trill were an interesting idea but Terry Farrell was a little dull and the Trill episodes were frequently colourless. The Dominion were more often dull than threatening, that is before Cardassia joined and Weyoun became the arch-recurring villain.

Ferengi? Ain't one of those things.

 

[scottydog]

Okay, I can respect your opinion -- even if I disagree with it -- that the Ferengi are interesting. But if you say "Family Business" is a good episode, then you've lost all credibility!

 

[Kegek]

Eh, I don't remember it well. Just Rom being more comfortable to see his mother naked. Which, er, yeah, is the kind of thing you remember...

 

[Huntingdon]

I like them and look forward to most of them when rewatching.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Zek and Ishka were annoying at times, but many Quark episodes I found enjoyable. I think Quark IS interesting, because he has different problems the Starfleet personel do. Prior Trek shows only focused on Federation citizens, people from a utopian society.

 

[scottydog]

Good Lord. Is it possible I'm the only one who thinks the majority of the Ferengi episodes are a disaster?

 

[Kegek]

^
No, I've heard a lot of complaining over the years about the Ferengi.

But I'm pleasantly surprised that my view is less of a minority than I believed.

 

[scottydog]

Kegek said:
^
No, I've heard a lot of complaining over the years about the Ferengi.

But I'm pleasantly surprised that my view is less of a minority than I believed.

Well, it shocks me. The contrast between "Improbable Cause" and "Family Business" is mind-boggling. The former is riveting television, whereas the latter is the worst television I've ever seen.

Maybe I'm just a curmudgeon!

 

[Kegek]

Like I said, I don't remember the episode well. But turn your mind back to the start of the season, where the rather lackluster "The Search" (very important episode but sidetracked by a lengthy VR plot) is followed up by the excellent "House of Quark."

It works both ways.

 

[scottydog]

"House of Quark" was all-right, possibly because it was rather Klingon-centric. Plus Quark acted very nobly, i.e., very un-Ferengi-like!

 

[TeutonicNights]

I like most Ferengi episodes. The ones I don't like are
Prophet motive - The scene in the celestial temple took any dignity the Prophets had and trampled on it
Profit and lace- how could anyone think this was actually funny?

But episodes like Body Parts or Profit and Loss were brilliant imho.

Family business was kinda okay. The scene at the lawyer's office was funny and we got our first look at Ferenginar and Brunt.
But I agree that Ishka and Zek were VERY annoying in later episodes. I also hate what they did to Ferengi society at the end. I understand the desire to wrap everything up at the end, but it was neither credible nor satisfying to see their society gimped.

 

[Mysterion]

scottydog said:
"House of Quark" was all-right, possibly because it was rather Klingon-centric. Plus Quark acted very nobly, i.e., very un-Ferengi-like!

Actually, I think the episode works due to the contrast between the Klingons and the Ferengi. Also, because we see Quark trying to win by being like the klingons, and then ultimately winning by being ferengi.

Besides, the scene where he's trying to explain economics to Gowron is priceless.

 

[Kegek]

Mysterion said:
Actually, I think the episode works due to the contrast between the Klingons and the Ferengi. Also, because we see Quark trying to win by being like the klingons, and then ultimately winning by being ferengi.

Quite so. And just as it takes a thief to catch a theif, it takes Quark's knowledge of economics to prove D'Ghor has dabbled in this disreptuable, Ferengi-like business.

 

[Mike Have-Not]

I mostly like the Ferengi episodes. To each his own, I guess.

 

[Navaros]

I disagree with the hate of Ferengi episodes, other than Profit and Lace which is indeed unwatchable.

However, Quark, Rom, Nog, Gaila, and Brunt are all amazing, brilliantly-acted characters. It's impossible in my view to not be fascinated by their amazing acting alone. They are what makes Ferengi episodes worthwhile.

I can't stand Moogie, and have mixed feelings about the Nagus, but for the sake of Quark, Rom, Nog, Gaila and Brunt I'm glad that DS9 devoted so much time on giving episodes to those great characters.

I love Family Business and almost every other Ferengi episode for those reasons.

 

[AdmiralGarak]

scottydog said:
Okay, I can respect your opinion -- even if I disagree with it -- that the Ferengi are interesting. But if you say "Family Business" is a good episode, then you've lost all credibility!

I like "Family Business", too. It was a good story for Quark, and the best story for Ishka.

I'd say Quark, Rom, Nog, and Brunt are among my favorite characters in DS9. Zek and Ishka are fun characters too, though they grow a bit tiresome in certain episodes. Gaila's pretty decent, and Eliminator Lek cracks me up every time I watch TMF. That's not a bad track record for Ferengi characters.

Honestly, the only really weak Ferengi stories are "Ferengi Love Songs", "Profit and Lace", and "The Emperor's New Cloak". And I dare say that "The Magnificent Ferengi" is one of the top 3 DS9 comedy episodes.

 

[Kegek]

AdmiralGarak said:
Honestly, the only really weak Ferengi stories are "Ferengi Love Songs", "Profit and Lace", and "The Emperor's New Cloak". And I dare say that "The Magnificent Ferengi" is one of the top 3 DS9 comedy episodes.

Not only that, "The Magnificent Ferengi" is the best remake of The Seven Samurai ever done on Star Trek.

I'd agree with that list, except for "The Emperor's New Cloak." The MU episodes finally descend into spiteful, absurd self-parody. The last episode was "Resurrection", and took a bland soap operatic route with the material. I never really liked the MU episodes, but I can say something about this episode untrue of every other episode on DS9: Rom saves it.

Yes. Rom. His endless metanarrative wailing makes this a treat. Crazy and sometimes senseless MU cameos (Vic Fontaine?) and some screwball comedy make it, well, a treat.

Is this thread a Ferengi love-in, or what?

 

[scottydog]

Kegek said: Is this thread a Ferengi love-in, or what?

Yes, it is. And I'm shocked beyond belief.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I guess I liked about 3/4ths of the Ferengi episodes. Now while I like them I don't really enjoy rewatching them over and over several times. I like them in small doses.