Oh for cryin' out loud! (Uncle SPOILERS)
- Thread starter gastrof
- Start date
"Please show me, on the doll, where Drunkle Frank touched young Jimmy Kirk."
I've just been studying the ceilings of my eye sockets again; this is one of those things I roll my eyes over. It's a bit hackneyed, and if that is the caliber of writing that contributes to the script then I'm starting to worry. It'd be nice to have a good Star Trek movie that gets creative interest in the franchise going again, but that's not gonna be happening soon if this movie is just a clip show of storyline clichés. I wonder if Uhura's mom had a problem with wire hangers ... ?
True, there might be ways to handle the idea that could make it fresh and interesting, but I'd feel more confident without knowing they were using crutches that are all too easily used as two-dimensional caricatures.
True, there might be ways to handle the idea that could make it fresh and interesting, but I'd feel more confident without knowing they were using crutches that are all too easily used as two-dimensional caricatures.
Hey, dead or missing parents are hackneyed and cliche in and of themselves. So are loving midwestern parents instilling strong traditional values in the hero-to-be. So are single parents struggling to raise a child. So are children raised by a grandfather/grandmother in the absence of their birth parents. So is making the hero an orphan of unknown parentage.
Hackneyed, cliche and trite - every single one.
Does someone here have a "fresh and interesting" premise for character histories? Don't trot out trivia from "canon," like the Tarsus thing, because that crap is neither.
There was a movie that I liked back in the 1970s that was composed entirely of so-called cliches and really wooden dialogue. It was called "Star Wars."
Hackneyed, cliche and trite - every single one.
Does someone here have a "fresh and interesting" premise for character histories? Don't trot out trivia from "canon," like the Tarsus thing, because that crap is neither.
There was a movie that I liked back in the 1970s that was composed entirely of so-called cliches and really wooden dialogue. It was called "Star Wars."
For what it's worth, I don't think Sarek was abusive of Spock at all. He certainly didn't care for Spock's career choice. We have no idea what motivated Spock to make that choice and anger his dad. Certainly, their falling out must've been something, and maybe we'll see it in the movie.
But, I saw their relationship as no more than two people who weren't on the same wavelength. The father resents the son because he doesn't follow in the family business. The son must then prove to the father that he made the right decision.
That, "So human," line is TFF has always bothered me. Did it surprise Sarek that the product of intercourse with a human woman may have human features? And, he married a human for crying out loud. So why would he hold such contempt for a child that had human features? And, Spock never renounced being a Vulcan.
The Uncle Spoiler thing does seem a bit trite to me as storytelling device. But, I don't know how cliche it all has to be in application. It depends on execution. If Kirk's dad is indeed away in Starfleet (perhaps on board the Kelvin in the movie) and Uncle Spoiler is left to raise him, I could see there being some conflict.
Kirk and his brother probably look up to their father and his accomplishments in Starfleet. They may even romanticize his life. Uncle Spoiler, left to be the father figure in day-to-day life, may be jealous -- both of what his brother is doing, and of the boys's obvious admiration for the absentee father over Spoiler.
I could see resentment building in Spoiler that might boil over in mistreating the boys in some way. Combined with that, if their dad met his fate in space, I could see that pushing the boys even further towards wanting to follow in their father's footsteps, either in civlian service as George did, or in Starfleet like Jim.
But, I saw their relationship as no more than two people who weren't on the same wavelength. The father resents the son because he doesn't follow in the family business. The son must then prove to the father that he made the right decision.
That, "So human," line is TFF has always bothered me. Did it surprise Sarek that the product of intercourse with a human woman may have human features? And, he married a human for crying out loud. So why would he hold such contempt for a child that had human features? And, Spock never renounced being a Vulcan.
The Uncle Spoiler thing does seem a bit trite to me as storytelling device. But, I don't know how cliche it all has to be in application. It depends on execution. If Kirk's dad is indeed away in Starfleet (perhaps on board the Kelvin in the movie) and Uncle Spoiler is left to raise him, I could see there being some conflict.
Kirk and his brother probably look up to their father and his accomplishments in Starfleet. They may even romanticize his life. Uncle Spoiler, left to be the father figure in day-to-day life, may be jealous -- both of what his brother is doing, and of the boys's obvious admiration for the absentee father over Spoiler.
I could see resentment building in Spoiler that might boil over in mistreating the boys in some way. Combined with that, if their dad met his fate in space, I could see that pushing the boys even further towards wanting to follow in their father's footsteps, either in civlian service as George did, or in Starfleet like Jim.
Last edited:
And once again people cast judgement without a single scrap of detail about the movie. For all we know this "abuse" (and where the hell the claims of sexual abuse came from I have no idea) might be because Druncle didn't think Jimmy was tall enough.
I think I'll continue waiting for the movie to come out.
I think I'll continue waiting for the movie to come out.
number6
Vice Admiral
Consider me officially DISINTERESTED in seeing this film succeed.
Typical "fan" reaction.
Yep.. Typical
That was me.
I'm totally stoked about this film!!I think I'll continue waiting for the movie to come out.
I have often said this about any film. Plots and plot devices are not the gauge of a good film. EXECUTION of those plots and plot devices is more important than the plot itself.
That's why I roll my eyes when someone posts "STXI would be a much better film if it was about [ fill in the blank ] rather than this TOS prequel".
What story this film tells is far less important than how that story is told. And that is true for just about every film made.
Exactly.
There are some story elements that are frequently used that are archtypes, not cliches. They are used in mythic storytelling, to tap into primal human experiences. The Wicked Stepfather/Uncle/Caretaker is an archetype perfectly suited for what Star Trek is..modern myth.
Which makes me think, if only Archer hadn't gotten along with his dad....
There's going to be an Uncle Frank in this movie? Cool! I'm an uncle Frank. Now I'm definately gonna have to see it
Actually, having now seen the "uncle"...
There's going to be an Uncle Frank in this movie? Cool! I'm an uncle Frank. Now I'm definately gonna have to see it
I'm thinking he's more of a "TV's Frank" sort of character.
The Drunk Uncle angle does seem like they're doing what the trailer did: show us something familiar and unexpected at the same time. We know Kirk grew up in Iowa, had a dad in Starfleet named George and had a brother named Sam both of whom would eventually die (though George's history is conjecture considering it mostly comes from the novels). Given that, there's no reason he couldn't have an abusive uncle. He needs to have some kind of obstacle to overcome, and it probably should be from his childhood as it would inform his personality at the Academy since he was already kind of the Kirk we knew from having cheated on Kobiyashi Maru). That device sounds as good as any; as stated above it is the execution above all that will sell it.
As far as Spock and Sarek, I do believe he was emotionally abusive. Emotional abuse is usually in the form of someone showing contempt for another person for something they can't help. Sarek's "So human" definitely falls under that, but also there seemed to be subtext in that regard in Journey to Babel and Star Trek IV. They both had ways of dealing with each other, but at the very least it wasn't a healthy relationship.
As far as Spock and Sarek, I do believe he was emotionally abusive. Emotional abuse is usually in the form of someone showing contempt for another person for something they can't help. Sarek's "So human" definitely falls under that, but also there seemed to be subtext in that regard in Journey to Babel and Star Trek IV. They both had ways of dealing with each other, but at the very least it wasn't a healthy relationship.
I can see it now...
Young Kirk finally snaps and whacks Uncle Spoiler with a slingblade and says, "I don't like to lose."
Actually, having now seen the "uncle"...
There's going to be an Uncle Frank in this movie? Cool! I'm an uncle Frank. Now I'm definately gonna have to see it
I'm thinking he's more of a "TV's Frank" sort of character.
I had a tv spot called "Frank's TV" done on a local public access channel. Not done very well at all, but it was done
