officers are called 'sir'

[KimMH]

I am a barbaric German but at least I am not a jingoist.
.

I know you were being funny but I found Germans to be very curteous and kind while there - about 18 mos in the late 1980s.

I do think we Americans tend to be a lot more casual about word usage and don't always think about the origins of words and phrases.

I am a fan of the idea that language is organic and rules; while useful, don't always sucessfully convey new ideas. New uses and vocab would seem like a sign of growth and therefore an indicator of good health, in spite of all the moaning and pissing about the decline of the tongue, blah blah blah . . .

 

[I am Surak]

Do you have anything to offer about this discussion but nonconsequential snide comments? Before you showed up insulting about 6,727,531,000 people without provocation, we were having an interesting discussion about the use and origin of the word "sir". But I guess standing on the sidelines throwing thrash is easier than actually having a discussion.

I had a long "snide" answer typed for this until I learned who you are and why you behave like that. Sorry.

 

[iguana_tonante]

 

[MacLeod]

Good point. I'd also add that in the States, where the class system is more fluid (no hereditary titles), we don't even think about social rank when using "sir" or "ma'am."

Here in Italy we don't have hereditary titles as well (we discarded them when we became a republic), so I don't think about social ranks when using courtesy forms as signore/signora. (Well, some people still insist on being addressed by their ancient titles: usually they are laughed in their face by us commoners.)

When speaking English, on the other hand, the subtext is present in my mind. Funny that. Maybe because of the perception of (British) English as being the language of a country where nobility titles are still in use. I dunno.

Sure they might still be in use, but in everday usage they don't have much of an impact. So sure somebody might be properly addressed as Sir John Doe, just as they might be addressed as Dr. John Doe. But in everday usage the use of the word 'sir' has nothing to do with knighthoods and is about being polite.

 

[iguana_tonante]

When speaking English, on the other hand, the subtext is present in my mind. Funny that. Maybe because of the perception of (British) English as being the language of a country where nobility titles are still in use. I dunno.

Sure they might still be in use, but in everday usage they don't have much of an impact. So sure somebody might be properly addressed as Sir John Doe, just as they might be addressed as Dr. John Doe. But in everday usage the use of the word 'sir' has nothing to do with knighthoods and is about being polite.

Again, I understand that. What I meant is that, as foreigner, my perception of the word "sir" might be coloured by the knowledge that such titles still exist in Britain, albeit rarely used. I hope this clears my intent.

 

[beamMe]

I think one of the major reasons for this lengthy discussion is that people outside the United States have a very different way of dealing with their fellow man than us here.
The wonderful common courtesy that we enjoy in this country is simply non existent in Europe for instance. I know - I am from there and on my very first trip to America I was amazed how civilized Americans are to one another.

Could you give a some example of that "wonderful common courtesy" we so seem to be lacking here in the Old World?

 

[teacake]

I read I am Surak's post and assumed he was talking about all the customer service sucking up you get in the US which takes a bit of choking down if you're not used to it.

Also beamMe is that Matt Smith in your avatar? It's very beautiful.

 

[beamMe]

I read I am Surak's post and assumed he was talking about all the customer service sucking up you get in the US which takes a bit of choking down if you're not used to it.

Ah, that fake, superficial, saccharine "courtesy" you just want to barf back into their faces? We get that here, too, now. It's annoying as hell.

Also beamMe is that Matt Smith in your avatar? It's very beautiful.

Yeah, it's Matt Smith.
It's not very visible in the avatar, but that's another guy he's kissing there.

Smith isn't handsome or beautiful, but I find him so attractive. There is something about his face that I don't quite get ... but I want to have it

 

[teacake]

I assumed it was another guy, the whole picture is just gorgeous. Where is it from?

As to the fake courtesy sometimes an American chain will open up here in Aus (usually fails) and all the local employees will behave like this because management has forced them into it. It's absolutely bizarre.

We basically have no customer service here, which is also not a great thing

 

[teacake]

Smith isn't handsome or beautiful, but I find him so attractive. There is something about his face that I don't quite get ... but I want to have it

It's like he's made of playdoh. I think he's adorable and he radiates a confident.. joy which is very sexy.

 

[T'Girl]

I read I am Surak's post and assumed he was talking about all the customer service sucking up you get in the US which takes a bit of choking down if you're not used to it.

We basically have no customer service here, which is also not a great thing

I think I'm picking up a pattern. You (perhaps as a group) deride actual customer service, then wonder why you don't receive it as a standard?

When I receive excellent customer service, I make a point of showing my appreciation by thanking the person by name (name tags are convenient), and yes occasionally call them "sir."

 

[teacake]

I like customer service. I don't like fake huge smiles, fake peppy tones, fake expressions of care by strangers. I just want the waiter to show up promptly and not fuck up my order. I do NOT want to be asked "and HOW are YOU today!!" as though I'm watching the Micky Mouse club.

 

[beamMe]

I like customer service. I don't like fake huge smiles, fake peppy tones, fake expressions of care by strangers. I just want the waiter to show up promptly and not fuck up my order. I do NOT want to be asked "and HOW are YOU today!!" as though I'm watching the Micky Mouse club.

 

[Skywalker]

I like customer service. I don't like fake huge smiles, fake peppy tones, fake expressions of care by strangers. I just want the waiter to show up promptly and not fuck up my order. I do NOT want to be asked "and HOW are YOU today!!" as though I'm watching the Micky Mouse club.

You think it's bad being on the receiving end of it? I used to work customer service and had to act like that all the damn time. Sure, I like to see customers have a good experience, but good grief.

And don't even get me started on that "the customer is always right" crap. But that's a completely different topic, apologies for contributing to the thread detour.

 

[MacLeod]

I like customer service. I don't like fake huge smiles, fake peppy tones, fake expressions of care by strangers. I just want the waiter to show up promptly and not fuck up my order. I do NOT want to be asked "and HOW are YOU today!!" as though I'm watching the Micky Mouse club.

Agreed, it should be upto the customer to initate conversation like "How are you today?"

No I do not want to be greeted as I enter your shop.

 

[beamMe]

I like customer service. I don't like fake huge smiles, fake peppy tones, fake expressions of care by strangers. I just want the waiter to show up promptly and not fuck up my order. I do NOT want to be asked "and HOW are YOU today!!" as though I'm watching the Micky Mouse club.

Agreed, it should be upto the customer to initate conversation like "How are you today?"

No I do not want to be greeted as I enter your shop.

Exactly. More than a simple, friendly "Can I help you?" or "Do you need any help?" really isn't required.

 

[T'Girl]

Remember customer service s a interactive process, the more of a (even brief) connection you have with a member of the wait staff, or store clerk, or whoever, the better the service.. These aren't little robots you brush past, people spend a chunk of their life's at work and enjoy brief moment of socializing with the folks that they meet on the job.

Trust me, working sales can be boring.

At the shops, restaurants, clubs and cantinas where I'm a regular, I know the names, marital status, and hobbies of the people who've been there for a while.

As a side effect of this, I've noticed that my drinks come faster, I get better cuts of meat, more time with sales people while picking out clothes. Bartenders use me to try out new experimentally drink concoctions as we talk sports. Sushi chef want me to provide opinions on different foods, while I tell him Japan stories.

When I was a bartender, the people who told me stories got dirtier drinks.

These are the people you meet during the course of your life, it's okay to talk to them.

beamMe, would it kill you to tell a joke?

 

[beamMe]

beamMe, would it kill you to tell a joke?

Let me think of one...

Ah, yes...

.

.

.

.

Sorry, I must have fainted.
I'm not going to push my luck any further.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I like customer service. I don't like fake huge smiles, fake peppy tones, fake expressions of care by strangers. I just want the waiter to show up promptly and not fuck up my order. I do NOT want to be asked "and HOW are YOU today!!" as though I'm watching the Micky Mouse club.

Agreed, it should be upto the customer to initate conversation like "How are you today?"

No I do not want to be greeted as I enter your shop.

Exactly. More than a simple, friendly "Can I help you?" or "Do you need any help?" really isn't required.

Agreed.

I try not to be mean to the customers in my store. If they need help, I'll give it. If they ask me a question, I'll answer it. But it is not my place to give small talk.

 

[teacake]

For a while my local supermarket had a new manager and the check out girls would ask everyone, "so what have you been up to today?" and "what have you been doing this weekend?" and EVEN making specific comments on what you might be doing with the groceries you were buying. It was very hard not to say something utterly crass when asked direct questions about what I'd been doing that day.. oh I had some awful things on the tip of my tongue.

The process you describe T'Girl of getting to know people in shops etc.. best happens organically. It is actually stymied by there being a script the shop people have to run through in the guise of friendly customer service.