Obreth class Starship Armament?

[asdf1]

In STII why was Reliant looking for a planet to test the Genesis device instead of an Obreth class vessel?

Well Khan couldn't have put up much of a fight with an Oberth...

What is the difference between an explorer class ship and a survey ship? Seems to me both classes do the same missions!

I would imagine a Survey ship is designed to do just that - perform surveys of large areas of space. They then send that data back to Star Fleet which reviews it and identifies areas that deserve exploration - at which point an Explorer would be sent to perform that more detailed mission.

So a survey ship would be small and fast with very good long-range sensors designed to quickly review large volumes of space. If it scanned our solar system, it would identify that there were eight major planets, of which one had a Class M environment and showed signs of not just life (based on spectra) but also advanced life (based on EM radiation like radio and TV). But it would not be able to know our planet as well as our own reconnaissance satellites do since it would likely be scanning us from light-years away.

So Star Fleet would send in the Explorer which would perform a full-boat analysis of Earth and it's civilization.

I always thought it was the other way around, with the big Explorers finding a new system or Nebula, etc. They'd take a few quick scans then go off and explore new things. After which a survey ship would come in and really explore it.

At least that's how i always thought it.

 

[Gagarin]

As survey or science ships, I do not think they would have or would need to have weapons. The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calypso_(ship), Jacques-Yves Cousteau's ship, did not need or have weapons. It was for doing research.

Just because it's a starfleet ship doesn't mean it needs to have 1 of everything. A ship has what the ship needs for the kind of missions it needs to do - not try to fit in every 'just in case' item. Putting weapons on the ship would take up space that would hinder it's mission as a science ship.

Starfleet Prototype, I think, had several space ships using Oberth-like components, and some of them did have torpedoes and weapons (they were patrol ships and corvettes... take that for what you will).

What about probes? Well - suppose there's smaller probes or probes that don't need to be launched at near-warp speed? I think the use of probes out of torpedo tubes was for simplicity-sake, not because there isn't a smaller, close-range probe that comes out of a plate in a Oberth (or somehow comes from the mission compartment below the ship).

 

[Patrickivan]

It's funny that these little ships were so versatile enough to span over a century in the Star Trek universe, and we got so little information on them from all the programmes.

But speculating over their vitals is most half the fun!

I've just assumed they had a minimum in defensive capabilities. look at the run-abouts for example- they seem oddly strong in some cases. And I've always believed that lower hull was 100% able to be swapped out for other mission specific platforms.

 

[MarianLH]

As survey or science ships, I do not think they would have or would need to have weapons. The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calypso_(ship), Jacques-Yves Cousteau's ship, did not need or have weapons. It was for doing research.

How then do you account for Kirk's concern that Grissom might fire on him for breaking the quarantine? From the Star Trek III shooting script:

KIRK
What's Grissom up to?... Will they
join us, or fire on us...?
(thinks)
Chekov, break radio silence. Send
my compliments to Captain Esteban.

Certainly the ship wouldn't be heavily armed, but it must have had something.


Marian

 

[Huntingdon]

Phasers would be useful for mining, sampling comets, dispersing debris and other activities that could have a scientific purpose, so it makes sense to include some capability even if not primarily for defence.

 

[Praetor]

I'd never considered that line of dialogue before as proof of the Grissom's armament, but there it is as plain as day. Clearly Kirk knows the ship and her captain, so he must be familiar with its armaments. At the least, it guarantees us that SOME Oberth class ships are armed, or CAN BE armed. I imagine that she had one phaser bank for shooting space debris or the like, and probably a probe launcher that could also fire torpedoes - perhaps that rear opening on the secondary hull? I doubt very much she carried any torpedoes as standard equipment, but I would say at least a phaser bank is standard equipment on all Oberth class ships, even if it isn't visible. (Neither were the phasers on the good ole E-nil, for that matter.)

 

[Major Chord]

Yeah, I'd assume that they at least have a phaser bank or two for defence and shooting debris or something. I'd guess that originally, in the 23rd century, the ships would come with at least one or two older model phaser mounts for "point defense". Perhaps to ward off a small raiding ship and destroying asteroids. Later, during the time of TNG, they would probably be outfitted with one main phaser emitter, perhaps of the type that the Saratoga carried in DS9 "Emissary". Again, probably just enough to ward off an attack and deflect debris, not participate in any sort of battle. As for torpedoes, I'd guess that an Oberth would have multiple types of probe launchers, for specialized probes, probably hidden beneath pannels in the hull. A photon torpedo/standard probe launcher could easily be among the mix. The ship doesn't need to carry many torpedoes, maybe 10 or 15, just in case things do get sticky.

I figured that the "explorer" ships, like the Excelsiors, Galaxys, and Constitutions would discover the planet, run initial scans, and make sure the area is clear and safe before moving on, leaving an Oberth or other science ship to take it's place, and study the planet in greater detail. That way, the Oberths would really never have to worry about going into hazardus (enemy infested) areas ( I figure that the ships would be going into scientifically hazardus areas, as that would fall under their mission profile).

 

[James Wright]

I remember episodes of TNG where the Enterprise-D did planetary surveys to establish colonies, even studying the formation of stars!
Aren't these the kind of assignments supposedly given to Obreth class survey vessels?
What was the Excelsior's assignment when Sulu first took command, if memory serves the assignment took 3 years?
Thanks!

JDW

 

[Unicron]

For anyone interested, the updated version of Jackill's tech manual gives the Fisher class 6 phaser banks (3 banks of 2 each) and shields, but no torpedoes. It's designed strictly as a noncombatant. Unfortunately the schematics are not clear on the placement, as there is nothing that resembles a conventional phaser bank on other designs. One bank is stated to be just forward of the bridge, which is in the saucer, but the location of the other two is not clear.

 

[Huntingdon]

What was the Excelsior's assignment when Sulu first took command, if memory serves the assignment took 3 years?
Thanks!

JDW

Charting Gaseous anomalies, right alongside the Klingon Border. I've seen it theorised that it was a cover for espionage/tracking ships which seems plausible.

It seemed that the Enterprise D was kept closer to the core than her mission profile expected due to changing political tensions. Otherwise some of those missions may well have been undertaken by an Oberth. I get the impression Oberths do mission studies lasting several years though, while an Explorer might spend a month on it before moving on.

 

[Timo]

Charting Gaseous anomalies, right alongside the Klingon Border. I've seen it theorised that it was a cover for espionage/tracking ships which seems plausible.

And of course the 3-year gaseous anomaly mission need not be considered the only mission of the ship during those three years. At the same time, Sulu might have been engaged in a 2-month mission of hunting down Klingon privateers, a 5-year mission of subjugating and bombarding new worlds and civilizations, and a day-long project of solving the mystery of life.

It would be mostly a coincidence, then, that the ship headed home at the end of the gaseous anomaly mission and didn't loiter for, say, the ongoing Klingon hunt.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[James Wright]

What was the maximum warp speed of an Obreth class starship, could it keep pace with a Nebula and Miranda classes of starships?
Thanks Again!

JDW

 

[Unicron]

Well, the Fisher is said to be capable of warp 9, but only in dire emergencies. Warp 4 or 5 is said to be the optimum cruising speed, with warp 7 as the ideal emergency speed. Of course, it's a transport/tug, so it's fair to assume those speeds might be a factor or two lower than the Oberth's for towing purposes. So perhaps the Oberth might have warp 6 or 7 as a high cruise speed, and warp 8 as an emergency speed.

 

[Praetor]

Charting Gaseous anomalies, right alongside the Klingon Border. I've seen it theorised that it was a cover for espionage/tracking ships which seems plausible.

And of course the 3-year gaseous anomaly mission need not be considered the only mission of the ship during those three years. At the same time, Sulu might have been engaged in a 2-month mission of hunting down Klingon privateers, a 5-year mission of subjugating and bombarding new worlds and civilizations, and a day-long project of solving the mystery of life.

It would be mostly a coincidence, then, that the ship headed home at the end of the gaseous anomaly mission and didn't loiter for, say, the ongoing Klingon hunt.

Timo Saloniemi

I still like to think that whole '3 year mission charting gaseous anomalies' right along the Klingon border was just an excuse for Starfleet to have ships along the Klingon border because of 'Cold War' tensions.

 

[Tigger]

I always thought it was the other way around, with the big Explorers finding a new system or Nebula, etc. They'd take a few quick scans then go off and explore new things. After which a survey ship would come in and really explore it.

There is probably some overlap. The Enterprise (TOS and TNG) performed both broad survey missions and detailed explorations. And Grissom herself was doing close analysis of the Genesis planet.

It is just that it seems odd to me for a ship with the large Sciences staff of an "explorer" like the Enterprise (TOS and TNG) would mostly do really quick missions while ships with a much smaller staff (like the Oberth) would be the one to mostly spend long amounts of time on a single subject.

 

[BolianAuthor]

Phasers would be useful for mining, sampling comets, dispersing debris and other activities that could have a scientific purpose, so it makes sense to include some capability even if not primarily for defence.

Yes, but there are differences between military lasers, medical lasers, and industrial lasers.

The same may hold true for phasers.

 

[Huntingdon]

Or it may not. They've been show to be extremely versatile - the Enterprise D has used them for feeding alien lifeforms (in dialogue), altering tectonics, shooting ships, performing emergency ceasarians...

 

[Red Ranger]

Yeah, I'd assume that they at least have a phaser bank or two for defence and shooting debris or something. I'd guess that originally, in the 23rd century, the ships would come with at least one or two older model phaser mounts for "point defense". Perhaps to ward off a small raiding ship and destroying asteroids. Later, during the time of TNG, they would probably be outfitted with one main phaser emitter, perhaps of the type that the Saratoga carried in DS9 "Emissary". Again, probably just enough to ward off an attack and deflect debris, not participate in any sort of battle. As for torpedoes, I'd guess that an Oberth would have multiple types of probe launchers, for specialized probes, probably hidden beneath pannels in the hull. A photon torpedo/standard probe launcher could easily be among the mix. The ship doesn't need to carry many torpedoes, maybe 10 or 15, just in case things do get sticky.

I figured that the "explorer" ships, like the Excelsiors, Galaxys, and Constitutions would discover the planet, run initial scans, and make sure the area is clear and safe before moving on, leaving an Oberth or other science ship to take it's place, and study the planet in greater detail. That way, the Oberths would really never have to worry about going into hazardus (enemy infested) areas ( I figure that the ships would be going into scientifically hazardus areas, as that would fall under their mission profile).

Andorian:

I remember reading some speculation about the role of pure science ships for scientific follow-up studies in Prime Directive. One of the characters tried for a Constitution-class ship, but instead she was offered command of a science vessel. It probably was an Oberth-class vessel. She turned it down, because she considered the assignment one that would doom her to be second best. She wanted to command a starship that was in the forefront of exploration.

I can see command of a science ship as a potential stepping stone in some starship commanders' careers, on the way to taking over an explorer vessel like a Galaxy-class ship.

Red Ranger

 

[James Wright]

Who designed the Obreth as it was seen in STIII TSFS?
Thanks!

JDW

 

[Unicron]

David Carson did. He served as a visual effects arts director for TSFS, and also helped design the Excelsior for that film along with Nilo Rodis-Jamero, who designed the BOP and had a similar title. Carson also did work on the original Star Wars trilogy and Jurassic Park.