NX-01 Vs Ncc-1701 D

[Cyke101]

Hey, first off, calm down.

I was perfectly calm at the time of writing that. Was merely trying to grab your attention.

Normally, I'd agree with you about this, as even a ship that's 10 years older is at a disadvantage. But I think he has a point here: after all, Voyager somehow, someway, managed to beat a fighter from the 29th Century. THAT is the equivalent of a Spanish Armada vessel, with its cannonballs and scimitars, beating an F-14, so really, it does depend on who's writing it. And seeing as how you agree that the writers have all the control, then you yourself know that they can do whatever they please without regard to the viewer's previous (often logical) knowledge or perception.

Ah, but Voyager used it's main deflector dish to disable the Aeon.
They used a specific pulse on a frequency sent right along the Aeon's sustained destructive beam.
If there was a one on one battle with actual weapons, then the Aeon would have likely roasted Voyager (the pulse it was using on Voyager was doing some serious damage ... but it still provided Voyager with a window of opportunity since it was a sustained beam which the heroes used to disable the Aeon directly - a method often used by many species to deflect a direct assault as evidenced in other Trek shows and Voyager episodes if you recall).

The NX-01 is a very unsophisticated piece of tech compared to Voyager for example because by the time of late 24th century, Feds tech was sufficiently developed to allow for some leeway (mind you it's an iffy subject though since 500 years of tech difference is a LARGE gap) ... a method earlier ships would likely have an issue with.

How is any kind of explanation of that battle going to justify it? For one thing, the time discrepancy between Voyager and the Aeon is twice as large as the discrepancy between the NX-01 and the Enterprise-D by a couple centuries. And regardless of how Voyager beat the Aeon, she still beat the Aeon when she shouldn't have. Really, it was very ridiculous to show the battle in the first place. Voyager is basically from the Aeon's dark ages and the battle itself is completely nonsensical (utter proof that technobabble is a crutch). Of course, if the 29th Century tech is really all that advanced, the Aeon should've run circles around such a tactic. Let's keep in mind even today's current rate of technological advances, and those advances are probably going to continue grow ing exponentially, making the tech gap between Voyager and Aeon even LARGER than the NX-01 and E-D. In the grand scheme of things, Voyager's deflector dish is really no different than a 16th century pirate trying to catch an F-14 with a net.

I really don't see how anyone can defend Voyager's victory here while bemoaning the notion that idea of the NX-01 doing anything to the Enterprise. That's an inconsistent stream of logic.

But then, that's the point of it all. Whoever is writing it has all the power, logistics and technology be damned. It's the same kind of writing that lets Jeff Goldblum with a Macintosh destroy an invading force centuries more advanced than 1996. Thus, to bemoan and belittle anyone for a silly notion but ignoring (or worse yet, allowing and defending) the precedent already set is inconsistent. Why is it okay for one crew to pull off a miracle but a crime if another crew on another show does it?

 

[TheGodBen]

This thread is fucking lame.

I know! It's the epitome of what non-fans would think we discuss here.

This thread makes kittens cry.

 

[Lord Garth]

I know! It's the epitome of what non-fans would think we discuss here.

And yet, it'll go on for like 5 pages.

Consisting of mostly meta-commentary about the thread and juvenile "MY CANON IS MORE CANON THAN YOUR CANON SO EVERYTHING I IMAGINE IS RIGHT!" nonsense.

To be honest, I'll take starship threads over canon threads any day of the week.

 

[nx1701g]

This sort of reminds me of a story I saw in a Trek comic way back when I was a little kid.

Q and Trelane were playing a game of chess against each other with the pieces being the crews of the Enterprise (Trelane) and the Enterprise-E (Q) except the Captain's were reversed (Kirk on the E, Picard on the 1701). In it Trelane sent Kirk in the E up against a TOS Era Klingon ship and Picard went up against a TNG Era Klingon ship in the 1701. The classic Enterprise took out the Negh'Var, but Q let the K'T'Inga nearly destroy the E-E.

Just made me think of it - I haven't thought of that comic in years.

 

[Maurice]

Simple answer. The NX would be fucked, as established even on Enterprise itself. Remember "A Mirror Darkly" where the 23rd century starship Defiant mopped the floor with every ship that came against it? Now, add 78 years of progress on top of that.

 

[Deks]

How is any kind of explanation of that battle going to justify it? For one thing, the time discrepancy between Voyager and the Aeon is twice as large as the discrepancy between the NX-01 and the Enterprise-D by a couple centuries. And regardless of how Voyager beat the Aeon, she still beat the Aeon when she shouldn't have. Really, it was very ridiculous to show the battle in the first place. Voyager is basically from the Aeon's dark ages and the battle itself is completely nonsensical (utter proof that technobabble is a crutch). Of course, if the 29th Century tech is really all that advanced, the Aeon should've run circles around such a tactic. Let's keep in mind even today's current rate of technological advances, and those advances are probably going to continue grow ing exponentially, making the tech gap between Voyager and Aeon even LARGER than the NX-01 and E-D. In the grand scheme of things, Voyager's deflector dish is really no different than a 16th century pirate trying to catch an F-14 with a net.

I really don't see how anyone can defend Voyager's victory here while bemoaning the notion that idea of the NX-01 doing anything to the Enterprise. That's an inconsistent stream of logic.

But then, that's the point of it all. Whoever is writing it has all the power, logistics and technology be damned. It's the same kind of writing that lets Jeff Goldblum with a Macintosh destroy an invading force centuries more advanced than 1996. Thus, to bemoan and belittle anyone for a silly notion but ignoring (or worse yet, allowing and defending) the precedent already set is inconsistent. Why is it okay for one crew to pull off a miracle but a crime if another crew on another show does it?

What happened during Braxton's attempt at destroying Voyager was essentially using a direct beam that did not instantly destroy the ship but it was a slower 'chewing' process which took more amount of time (enough of it so the crew can fight back).
As I already said earlier, they utilized Braxton's weapons against him.
Sending a specific deflector pulse via his beam as a conduit, it's bound to use Braxton's beam as well to inflict damage onto the Aeon's systems.
This method was used by less advanced species to deflect direct assaults.
Even the Borg used this method in episode 'One' when Voyager tried disabling Sphere's engines with their enhanced weapons (using a sustained phaser beam).
Granted, even for it's size, the Aeon should have destroyed Voyager in less half the time what we saw on screen (writers made a stupid mistake yet again) if we take into consideration the 500 years of technological gap between the 2 ships.

Realistically, Voyager should have been minced meat.
The NX-01 would be the same if it went up against a Galaxy class ship.

There is no contest really.
Unless of course Braxton put on a good acting show for Janeway with the hidden intention of setting certain things in motion so Voyager could repair the damage themselves right before Starlight went into the temporal rift (or his weapon was of a much weaker output than originally intended because he was too close to the rift).

 

[darkshadow0001]

Please settle a debate for me, The original Enterprise could not beat the D could it? My friend seems to think that the NX could use shield frequencies to disable the D but that cannot be right!

If Scotty is head of engineering, I think the original Enterprise (1701) could definately beat the D. No pun intended. Kirk only had one main engineer-- Picard hard at least 3.

 

[3D Master]

Actually, going by feats, not only could the NX-01 win, it almost certainly WILL win. It has greater maneuverability, greater acceleration as it gets to warp about instantly, it's top speed is far greater - as it gets to Q'Onos in only five days, its torpedo weapons are the exact same as the D, and its beam weapons are more powerful - seeing as the Borg didn't manage to adapt to a mere pistol until after 15 or or so shots, while phasers don't get past 2 or if they're lucky 3 from a powerful rifle, seeing as the ship's version in both cases is more powerful version of the hand weapon...

The Eneterprise-D is rather screwed.

Of course, since the NX-01 is supposed to be a primitive predecessor flying around two whole centuries earlier, it kinda highlights how bad Enterprise was made.

Please settle a debate for me, The original Enterprise could not beat the D could it? My friend seems to think that the NX could use shield frequencies to disable the D but that cannot be right!

If Scotty is head of engineering, I think the original Enterprise (1701) could definately beat the D. No pun intended. Kirk only had one main engineer-- Picard hard at least 3.

That's because the E-D is nearly 5 times as large, and thus has five times the machinery that needs to be maintained.

 

[cybersoldier]

Please settle a debate for me, The original Enterprise could not beat the D could it? My friend seems to think that the NX could use shield frequencies to disable the D but that cannot be right!

All the enterprises build after the NX-01 can kick its ass, the only thing going for NX-01 is it size, other than that its moving target practice

 

[Broccoli]

Question: Is Batman in charge of the NX-01? If so, and he had enough time to prepare, the NX-01 would win.

This sort of reminds me of a story I saw in a Trek comic way back when I was a little kid.

Q and Trelane were playing a game of chess against each other with the pieces being the crews of the Enterprise (Trelane) and the Enterprise-E (Q) except the Captain's were reversed (Kirk on the E, Picard on the 1701). In it Trelane sent Kirk in the E up against a TOS Era Klingon ship and Picard went up against a TNG Era Klingon ship in the 1701. The classic Enterprise took out the Negh'Var, but Q let the K'T'Inga nearly destroy the E-E.

Just made me think of it - I haven't thought of that comic in years.

Star Trek Unlimited # 7. I loved that issue. Very fan-wanky, but very fun too.

 

[RandyS]

This thread is fucking lame.

As opposed to all the other Trek Trivia threads?

 

[Mister_Atoz]

For what it's worth, Spock says that the 20th century F-104 that intercepts the Enterprise in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" did pose a threat to the Starship, presumably with it's shields down. So if an aircraft from the 20th century could theoretically damage a 23rd Century Starship, I see no reason why the NX-01 couldn't damage the Enterprise-D, albeit under extreamly unlikely circumstances.

 

[kent]

The NX-01 would most certainly NOT out fight or gun the Enterprise-D, or for that matter ANY Galaxy class starship.

Why?

Well, aside from the fact the Enterprise didn't have the greatest sheilds as they were in the infancy stage of that technology, they didn't have advanced weaponry at all.

Going by the century, phase canon's pre-date TOS' lasers. I'm assuming that phase cannon's were a particle laser weapon of some sort that gave birth to the lasers used by the Constitution class. Or, i like this one better, phase-cannon's proved too taxing or not as reliable as the lasers created later on. perhaps Starfleet could focus more energy into a Laser than they could a phase-cannon. Phasers rolled around once lasers were maxed out on power, and using the lessons learned from Phase cannons starfleet was able to create a much more flexible weapon.

Photon torpedo's....Well, a photon is a light particle. The term photon torpedo only refers to the fact that it emits light as it travels to the target. The photonic torpedo simply does the same thing. However, both are stated as antimatter weapons so there in lies the rub. I offer a possible explanation.

Photonic torpedo's could be an ancestor of the more modern photon torpedo which entered service in around 2245. If people will recall, the photon torpedo was initially a slow, short range weapon that you could even outrun if you were quick enough. That said it's possible that yes indeed the photonic torped worked in much the same way, but engineers couldn't get around the range to explosive yield ratio (remember that to travel the torpedo uses it's own warhead for fuel.), and thus abandoned it in favor of the more flexible and longer range nuclear warhead, which they still could make yet even more powerful.

This all said, going by the timeline, Enterprise's weaponry and defensive capabilities were much more primitive than a Galaxy class weapons.

Photon torpedo's by the 24th century had a maximum range of 4 million KM with a payload of 1.5 kilo's of matter and antimatter, with a stock compliment of around 200 torpedo's with industrial replicators to make mroe. The type ten phasers used by that class of ship had an output of 50 TW (initially MW, but that would be underpowered and Voyager repeatedly used the TW range, and Intrepid class ships have type ten phasers as well.) PER SEGMENT. The dorsal phaser array of a galaxy class ship has over 200 emitter segments, most of them working in pairs.

The galaxy class starships shields are also extremely strong, though in the 2360's not as strong as an Intrepid or Sovereign class'. This assumably changed with the outbreak of the Dominion war. The Galaxy class has some 12 heavy sheild generators littered around the ship not counting backups or ones used in separated flight mode. In addition to on board firepower and defensive capabilities, the large shuttlebay on decks 3 and four can comfortably carry squadrens of shuttles with their own weaponry.

All in all...

the galaxy class ship would own the NX-01. Simple. Whether it is beaten down with shuttles and the ship itself, or destroyed because the Galaxy class separated and fought with two ships, or by the fact that the Galaxy class' weaponry has a longer range than anything in the 2150's.

It's also worth noting that the warp core of an NX class starship doesn't even havea highenough power output to maintain anything over warp 5 and is TINY. The galaxy class warp core occupies 10 decks, and can maintain a cruise velocity of warp 6 indefinately, with an emergency speed of warp 9.6, and by the time of the dominion war warp 9.9.

 

[Ninjacore]

I think the NX-01 could win against the Ncc-1701 D if proper tactics were used.

 

[sojourner]

In before the lock.

 

[Ninjacore]

In before the lock.

Why lock it, I resurrected it instead of making a new one, did not want to repeat my stodden error...

 

[sojourner]

Though it's not posted anywhere, the mods frown on old threads being revived. Especially when limited new content is added.

 

[Ninjacore]

Though it's not posted anywhere, the mods frown on old threads being revived. Especially when limited new content is added.

Hopefully the added content will come from newer members who will add to the thread.

 

[sojourner]

Circular argument.

 

[Ninjacore]

Circular argument.

If only they were real, one less duck to give me a headache...